John_Cillis

Ethiopia crash

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It is another 737Max.. Wondering if there is a flaw with the design..

S.

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Very sad news indeed and RIP to all those on board. It is of concern that, like the Lion Air crash, it also happened during climb out and it too was a 737MAX.

Bill

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, simbol said:

It is another 737Max.. Wondering if there is a flaw with the design..

S.

Too early to tell, one must question the origin of the flight, sometimes telling in that part of the world.  The pundits will chime in, but I am in no position to guess, unlike Spock and I have not met one yet in real life, but came very close with my Dad who is not here to chime in anymore, my guesses when it comes to unnatural disasters are always off.  I can predict earthquakes and severe weather uncannily well, my friends used to call me Radar O'Reilly in that respect, because I could also sense an imminent influx of patients such as the night my daughter was born, which broke her hospital's records for births. 

A strong California earthquake was felt strongly in Arizona came less than 24 hours after she was born so when she writes me, I always sense something good or bad will happen, some newsworthy event, she just seems to be a weathervane like I was, of sorts.  I knew the day of the Oklahoma City bombings and the day of the Challenger disaster, the day before my aunt passed away, and the day before Mt. St. Helens exploded, and finally the day before our big earthquake in the SF Bay Area in '89 that something was going to happen, I just could not put my finger on it, but in each instance I put my family on high alert. 

I no longer do that because my ex wife said it scared her when my premonitions came true so no one can pry them out of my live body, and once I am gone someday I will be less preoccupied with whatever my premonitions were, which is where I hope the lost in this crash are now, out of life's pains and worries.

Edited by John_Cillis

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Posted (edited)
Quote

It is another 737Max.. Wondering if there is a flaw with the design....

Exactly what I was thinking when I saw this news report.

Edited by Christopher Low

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737 MAX jockeys have a right to be feeling a tad nervous.

Planes a few years old shouldn't be falling out of the sky

 

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4 minutes ago, zmak said:

Planes a few years old shouldn't be falling out of the sky

Typically not. But there's usually many other contributors present, when it comes to plane crashes.

Let's not jump to conclusions 😉 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

Typically not. But there's usually many other contributors present, when it comes to plane crashes.

Let's not jump to conclusions 😉 

Sure it could be a series of events in the lead up or It could be a fault in that model. Nobody's concluding anything at this stage obviously.

FACT.. 2 of the same near new model have fallen out of the sky. Thats undeniable and very troublesome

Edited by zmak

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First commercial flight according to wikipedia was on May 22, 2017. Two catastrophic failures in less than two years for a brand new version of the 737. I'm not getting on one until they get to the bottom of it. RIP

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, John_Cillis said:

Too early to tell, one must question the origin of the flight, sometimes telling in that part of the world.

Very unfair comment my friend. Do you have information as to the composition of the flight crew and basing your judgement on that? Flying in Africa, I find that the usual stereotypical view of the continent I'm afraid.

Edited by Peter Webber
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15 minutes ago, Peter Webber said:

Very unfair comment my friend. Do you have information as to the composition of the flight crew and basing your judgement on that? Flying in Africa, I find that the usual stereotypical view of the continent I'm afraid.

indeed

 

Ethiopian Airlines has gained the reputation of being one of the best airlines in Africa. It has a good safety record and the newest fleet of planes on the African continent, according to its website.
"Ethiopian Airlines is a very, very well-run airline," said CNN anchor Richard Quest, who specializes in aviation. "There is no safety issue on Ethiopian. They've made it their business to be the African airline that operates like a western airline."
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Posted (edited)

And what makes it, for me, when I read the news reports early this morning,  so tragic even more.specially, is a passenger I know who has only just a couple of days ago booked a flight LHR-Lusaka via Addis with them.

And all credit to Ethiopian Airlines for celebrating International Womens Day a couple of days ago, with an all-female crew including all the ground crew and support crew, Addis to Oslo.

And in the light of what you wrote only a few days ago, John about women being coerced to wear this or that,............................I will say no more.

R.I.P. to all.

Edited by vc10man

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I say grounding in sight for the 737 max...

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3 minutes ago, Murmur said:

I say grounding in sight for the 737 max...

The first crash was easily explained, part instrument problem and part pilot training. This problem is unsolved, so I seriously doubt if the fleet will be grounded. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peter Webber said:

Very unfair comment my friend. Do you have information as to the composition of the flight crew and basing your judgement on that? Flying in Africa, I find that the usual stereotypical view of the continent I'm afraid.

While that is true, with regards to Ethiopian Airlines, the continent itself is generally behind when it comes to modern radio and navigation equipment etc... I read an article from a British Airways pilot, who said that in some parts of Africa, pilots needed to agree on flight-levels, altitude and navigation / heading, by talking directly to each other - simply because of lacking or missing ATC coverage.

There must be a reason that many airlines simply avoid flying to Africa, so please just stop this self-proclaimed offensiveness! 

(Oh, boy - I probably stuck my head in a hornets-nest here...)

Edited by Anders Bermann

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

While that is true, with regards to Ethiopian Airlines, the continent itself is generally behind when it comes to modern radio and navigation equipment etc... I read an article from a British Airways pilot, who said that in some parts of Africa, pilots needed to agree on flight-levels, altitude and navigation / heading, by talking directly to each other - simply because of lacking or missing ATC coverage.

There must be a reason that many airlines simply avoid flying to Africa, so please just stop this self-proclaimed offensiveness! 

(Oh, boy - I probably stuck my head in a hornets-nest here...)

Your comment makes no sense, regarding this accident, which was shortly after takeoff, from a major airport. . 

Edited by Bobsk8

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1 hour ago, Peter Webber said:

Very unfair comment my friend. Do you have information as to the composition of the flight crew and basing your judgement on that? Flying in Africa, I find that the usual stereotypical view of the continent I'm afraid.

You are absolutely right about that, Peter. I flew with Ethiopian last year to Addis Ababa in a 777. They are a member of Star Alliance and their operations are more or less on the same level as that of the other members. The fact that they are flying a brand new plane is an indicator.

Peter

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The ADS-B data posted by FlightRadar shows that the first 2.5 min of the flight exhibited major vertical speed excursions, varying from +2400 to -1920 fpm, with the jet accelerating the entire time to ~335 KIAS.  The climb rate stabilized at around 2600 fpm for the last 15 seconds of data.  The data stopped at 8600 ft STP (around 9200 ft MSL with field press of 1039 hPa/30.68 in), at 05:41:02 UTC, approximately 3 min before the time the jet was reportedly lost on radar.  At 1 min 37 seconds after liftoff, the jet was only 900 ft above airport elevation, and began a 20 second descent excursion that peaked at -1920 fpm and resulted in a 400 ft loss of altitude to only 500' above airport elevation.  I haven't seen a ground track yet, but HAAB is surrounded by towering cumulogranite, with min safe altitude in the NE quadrant (direction of takeoff) of 14000 ft and 13500 ft in all other directions.

For whatever reason, the crew did not keep the pointy end up after takeoff...the jet was oscillating up/down starting soon after takeoff while accelerating steadily to well past normal climb speed.  To be at only 500' above field elevation over 2 min after liftoff in mountainous terrain is bad, bad juju. 

Regards

 

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To all the families impacted by this terrible tragedy, my sincerest condolences. Let us not forget the dramatic loss of innocent lives from this accident.

History has demonstrated that travel, by any form of transportation, unfortunately, has its risks. In time, the root cause of this accident will be known and measures will be put in place to prevent recurrence. Speculation does not resolve issues…and may cause unnecessary pain to those who are already suffering from this tragic loss today.

Rest in peace for all those of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302.

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That sounds dangerously similar to the problems experienced by the Lion Air flight. If that is confirmed, then I tend to agree with Murmur.

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4 minutes ago, w6kd said:

The ADS-B data posted by FlightRadar shows that the first 2.5 min of the flight exhibited major vertical speed excursions, varying from +2400 to -1920 fpm, with the jet accelerating the entire time to ~335 KIAS

Same as the previous incident! Preliminary finger pointing? BOEING MAX 737. I won't get on one.

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20 minutes ago, qqwertzde said:

You are absolutely right about that, Peter. I flew with Ethiopian last year to Addis Ababa in a 777. They are a member of Star Alliance and their operations are more or less on the same level as that of the other members. The fact that they are flying a brand new plane is an indicator.

Peter

Spot-on sensible observation, because, if 'according to that BA pilot, .......etc, etc', then I am fairly sure the European Union would have misgivings of such flights into Europe. Same may apply for the USA, I do not know. But surely the  Star Alliance would raise an eyebrow or two?

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19 minutes ago, Adrian123 said:

Same as the previous incident! Preliminary finger pointing? BOEING MAX 737. I won't get on one.

If it was the same problem, I'd have to question why the crew didn't immediately disengage the stab trim and trim manually with the wheels, which is the corrective action for an MCAS problem as I understand it, and should be fresh in everyone's minds after the Lion Air crash.  2-3 min fighting the acft trying to get it to behave normally is an eternity when you need to be climbing right now to stay clear of the mountains all around you.

Of course this could also be a weight and balance or shifting cargo problem, one kamikaze pilot fighting the other pilot trying to crash the plane, or some other sort of mechanical issue--all of those things have happened before.  Thanks to modern data downlinking, we already know a lot about *what* the jet did...but we know nothing yet about *why* it did that.

Too early to throw stones.

Regards

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Posted (edited)

Just my opinion of course but with the friends and relatives of 157 poeple just starting to be faced with the fact that they are gone and the people who do actually know what happened saying that it is too early to determine what happened, let alone a cause, might it be better to close the topic instead of leading it on?

Edited by nolonger

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2 hours ago, nolonger said:

Just my opinion of course but with the friends and relatives of 157 poeple just starting to be faced with the fact that they are gone and the people who do actually know what happened saying that it is too early to determine what happened, let alone a cause, might it be better to close the topic instead of leading it on?

I was reading the report at the Aviation Herald and as usual the comments contain some rather eyebrow raising content, aka intensive speculation and claims as to the cause. One poster even starting pointing fingers at Ethiopian Airlines staff members, citing their names and saying criminal charges against these people would likely be coming up. You'd think that website would be full of people who know what they're talking about and who are blessed with some common sense.

As long as this thread discusses the accident an a sophisticated manner, which I am confident it will, I see no reason to lock it down.

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