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AI Live Traffic Released for FSX and Prepar3D

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2 hours ago, tooting said:

Maintain airline and airport codes. 

One of the previous issues with ai software is they didn't update schedules, airline codes, and airport codes. 

 

 

That's up to your AI models and AFCAD files, not the Ai program

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2 hours ago, ha5mvo said:

Correct handling of AI is very much like administering medication. It has to be the right one at the right dose.

To date, no single program can do both, and none of it is the developers fault. The core of the problem is with the way the sim handles AI and the lack of an affordable and reliable data stream.

Even with the most up to data static database, like the ones based on BGLs or the UTL database, you'll get anomalies  - especially at larger airports. This is due to p3d's ai engine in most part, and partly due to possible AFCAD design faults.

Well PSXseeconTraffic does not use the P3D ai engine at all, so no problems with that.

PSXseeconTraffic also knows the exact parking positions and their radius for your airports thanks to its PPG tool.

The only thing that causes disturbances in the movement of AI aircraft in PSXseeconTraffic is irregularities in the traffic stream provided by RealTraffic ( the data provider).

However, PSXseeconTraffic  "smoothes out" a lot of these irregularities with intelligent heuristics, such as extending an airborne flight in the current direction for a number of seconds if a new position is missing in the data stream, hoping a new one will arrive in time. But lots of other heuristics are in place too. I have worked for 3,5 years now on the development off this app. Current version is 14.14 😉

 

Edited by kiek
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, ha5mvo said:

Olivers Hybrid mode would have been a perfect solution if there was only a good info stream to feed the program

For my personal taste, RealTraffic & the LLTX Simulator AI mode is good enough - but that is because I don't want too many AI in my simulator in the first place. And I fly in Europe mostly, where there is decent ADS-B coverage in most places. The feeling that a certain aircraft that I hear on the ATC frequency is actually there in the real world is still special. There is enough traffic that I sometimes have to wait in a queue at the departure runway and AI fly their usual go-arounds.

I wrote a client for the FlightAware API too (FlightRadar24 doesn't have one), and coverage is really great with them. But then, after creating the account and running a few trials, I realized how much the simulator pilot would have to pay for using it, and I immediately abandoned the code...

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI

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10 hours ago, GSalden said:

AI aircraft, in realtime , from gate to gate incl all delays and diversions.

Lyning up at approach in a queue with other aircraft , who are actually flying there at that moment in reality too, adds so much to the immersion...

Does this mean proper approach separation if it tracks the position data of the real aircraft?

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2 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Does this mean proper approach separation if it tracks the position data of the real aircraft?

BlackBox711 steam last night on twitch showed this new addon. I won't say anything it's best you watch and draw your own conclusion.

I won't link to the stream.

 

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12 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Does this mean proper approach separation if it tracks the position data of the real aircraft?

You in your AC are the only exception as you have to line up between 2 aircraft with the correct seperation. Which makes it extra challenging ..

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22 minutes ago, GSalden said:

You in your AC are the only exception as you have to line up between 2 aircraft with the correct seperation. Which makes it extra challenging ..

Indeed, but if want to make life a little easier you can also let PSXseeconTraffic block one of the callsigns in the queue so you can take its position and land while listening to the live ATC controller giving "you" instructions 😉

Edited by kiek

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Does this mean proper approach separation if it tracks the position data of the real aircraft?

Hello Niklas,

what PSXseecon and LorbyLiveTraffic do is basically the same as FlightRadar24 or FlightAware are doing. But instead of painting little aircraft on a map, both tools will display & move 3D models of your choice in your simulator. Downside is, that real world aircraft don't care about you, so you have to thread your own way between them. And they don't interact with any ATC. I find that last part annoying, which is why I have added that Simulator AI mode to LLTX. But that is a different story. 

The new addon from the OP is different. It creates "normal" AI, using real world airport schedules.

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Niklas,

what PSXseecon and LorbyLiveTraffic do is basically the same as FlightRadar24 or FlightAware are doing. But instead of painting little aircraft on a map, both tools will display & move 3D models of your choice in your simulator. Downside is, that real world aircraft don't care about you, so you have to thread your own way between them. And they don't interact with any ATC. I find that last part annoying, which is why I have added that Simulator AI mode to LLTX. But that is a different story. 

The new addon from the OP is different. It creates "normal" AI, using real world airport schedules.

Best regards

Hello Oliver,

I don't find it difficult to find a place in between two other aircraft. For users that do find it difficult I have add the block callsign option (that real live aircraft will ne suppressed).

Real live aircraft listen to real live ATC of course, why do you want their representations obey artificial ATC programs? That is not even possible in PSXseeconTraffic while it "slews" the aircraft model through the airspace based on the data in the real traffic stream. You will really see the aircraft being vectored to the active runway, as in reality. 

Rgrds,

Nico

Edited by kiek

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Posted (edited)

i keep trying it on free mode for the 5 attempts only for it to not let me giving me the 

ERROR 10603A
You have reached the maximum number of timetables generated for this hour.

 

Also you going to have issues for example if a titan a320 was operating for easyjet today it will spawn an easy a320 and not the titan.  Not the end of the world but with ai bgls you could specify what routes a titan a320 did for example.

 

Edited by tooting

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Posted (edited)

Try it for a month. So far i like what i see. Also using FSUIPC for a maximum numbers of AI in the airports for dep and Arrival. 

That bring new life to my Mytraffic AI models. Maybe not perfect but better than nothing 

Thanks Michael Moe 

Edited by Michael Moe

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, kiek said:

Hello Oliver,

I don't find it difficult to find a place in between two other aircraft. For users that do find it difficult I have add the block callsign option (that real live aircraft will ne suppressed).

Real live aircraft listen to real live ATC of course, why do you want their representations obey artificial ATC programs? That is not even possible in PSXseeconTraffic while it "slews" the aircraft model through the airspace based on the data in the real traffic stream. You will really see the aircraft being vectored to the active runway, as in reality.  

Rgrds,

Nico

Hello Nico,

we have very different philosophies in our apps, that is just how it is.

But since you are asking about my personal preference regarding ATC:

- I don't like it that there is no interaction with live traffic or live ATC chatter. It is like watching a movie, I don't enjoy flying that way. I also don't enjoy recording my flight and then following myself pretending that I am flying in formation. These things are just not my cup of tea. All I am using the Live mode in LLTX for is plane spotting, I never fly in that mode.

- Simulated ATC talks to the other planes too, alerts them of my presence, makes them halt or go around, even when I do something stupid and deviate from the real world path.

- I use MCE to talk to ATC and ATC talks back to me. They care what I do. With the right ATC program there are many things that I can do that deviate from the real world procedure without having another plane fly or taxi right through me.

- I like my routine of preflight to parking, including the actual guidance from ATC, changing frequencies etc. I can fly to airports that are not 100% realistic and ATC still fits. And so can the other aircraft.

- I can put the simulator in pause mode at any time and come back after an hour without losing anything. I have to do that a lot.

- Simulator ATC is available everywhere, regardless of real world data shortcomings

- I can fly anything, anywhere and any time. I don't have to be a slave of the real world. For me, that is what a flightsim is about.

If I didn't have my LLTX I would probably buy the addon that this thread is about. 

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

we have very different philosophies in our apps, that is just how it is.

Hi Oliver,

Indeed, that's how it is, no problem.

I used to fly a lot online (>1000 hours ) in the Leveld767 in my home cockpit at the VATSIM network. So I know what ATC is all about and I am fluent in speaking the right radio terminology.

I really don't like these artificial ATC programs, and have never used one myself (only watched other pilots using it).

With PSXseeconTraffic I always fly on my own, amidst the live traffic. I enjoy seeing the live aircraft around me at my TCAS.

I don't need any guidance to land or takeoff. It is also more relaxed not to have to fullfill the "talking to ATC and dialing radio freqs" job of the co-pilot while you are also already the captain. 😉

Regards,

Nico

Edited by kiek
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I think we can all agree that AI traffic (while no version is perfect) has come a long way from this:
 


:laugh:

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If I'm in a queue for takeoff and another plane pulls up behind me, will it taxi through me because it's tracking real world position data?

Also, I use ProATCX. It doesn't actually control the AI but issues instructions that fit based on what the AI are doing. Using any of the three programs, will it still keep talking to AI?

I'm still a bit confused.

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16 minutes ago, threegreen said:

1) if I'm in a queue for takeoff and another plane pulls up behind me, will it taxi through me because it's tracking real world position data?

2) Also, I use ProATCX. It doesn't actually control the AI but issues instructions that fit based on what the AI are doing. Using any of the three programs, will it still keep talking to AI?

I can only answer for PSXseeconTraffic:

@1 No, it will not taxi through you if you have checked collision detection between your aircraft and real live aircraft in the PSXseeconTraffic User Interface.

@2 No, it will not talk to the real live aircraft because they are not AI aircraft controlled by P3Ds ai-engine, but "aircraft objects" placed and moved in P3D by PSXseeconTraffic. (PSXT will update each aircraft objects position, pitch, bank and altitude between 20 and 33 times per second. PSXT also takes care of animations such as lights, landing gear, flaps and spoilers)

Edited by kiek

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, threegreen said:

I'm still a bit confused.

understandably, and in a large part that is my fault by derailing the thread..

We currently have three different products that use online data to create AI traffic: "Ai Live Traffic", "PSXseeconTraffic", "LorbyLiveTraffic". Each of them handles traffic a little differently.
It is important to note, that none of them comes with any aircraft models - they all rely on you having an AI aircraft package already installed. 

1. AI Live Traffic
How does it work?
The app uses online depature and arrival data to generate a BGL file with "classic" AI flight plans for each flight that you make.

What do I have to do?
Before you fly, you have to provide your departure and arrival airports. After the app has calculated the AI flight plan file, you have to restart your simulator (=for every flight).

What AI models are supported?
FLAI, IVAO MTL, WOAI, Traffic Global, Ultimate Traffic

What is the performance impact?
The app isn't running while you fly. It creates standard BGL based AI traffic, just like the default and most other AI products.

Will AI park, taxi, land, take off?
Yes.

Will AI taxi through me?
No - within the known limits of the simulator AI logic

Will AI talk to ATC?
Yes

How much does it cost?
$3.50 per month reduced introductory offer, has a cost free trial

2. PSXseeconTraffic
How does it work?
It reads online position data for each aircraft from an extra client program (RealTraffic) and displays the aircraft in your sim where they are in the real world.

What do I have to do?
Start the RealTraffic client and the app. The initial setup requries you to scan your scenery and aircraft libraries, using tools provided with PSXseeconTraffic

What AI models are supported?
All of them, since the app scans your existing library.

What is the performance impact?
The app has to do its calculations while you are flying, and it is updating every single AI aircraft in the sim approximately 30 times per second

Will AI park, taxi, land, take off?
Yes. Within the limits of the online data, expanded with extra logic.

Will AI taxi through me?
Depends on your settings. Normally yes, since the real aircraft doesn't care about you being there. But there is an option to stop them from doing it.

Will AI talk to ATC?
No

How much does it cost?
$20 every three months for the RealTraffic client


3. Lorby Live Traffic
How does it work?
LLTX has two different modes of operations. One is the "Live" mode, where it reads online position data for each aircraft from an extra client program (RealTraffic) or an online API (OpenSkyNetwork) and displays the aircraft in your sim close to where they are in the real world. 
The other is "Simulator AI", where the online data is used to create simulator-controlled AI planes that fly from departure to arrival at the right time - but not using the real route. This is done at runtime, it does not use BGL files and a simulator restart is not required.

What do I have to do?
Start the RealTraffic client and the app. Or just the app in cost free mode. 

What AI models are supported?
MT6, UT2, UTL, BVAI, FLAI, AIG AIM OCI, WOAI

What is the performance impact?
The app needs to do its calculations. "Live" AI in the sim are updated 4 times a minute (the sim controls them, not the program. They are just told where to go), "Simulator AI" are not updated at all.

Will AI park, taxi, land, take off?
In "Live" mode: no (only landing). In "Simulator AI" mode: yes.

Will AI taxi through me?
In "Live" mode: no, because there is no ground traffic. In "Simulator AI" mode: subject to the simualtors AI logic - so generally "no", unless they want to.

Will AI talk to ATC?
In "Live" mode: no. In "Simulator AI" mode: yes.

How much does it cost?
When using RealTraffic: $20 every three months
When using the cost-free OpenSkyNetwork: nothing. But that mode has severe limitations, aircraft are from the correct airline but a randomized type. Departure and Arrival airports are more or less randomized too.

Best regards
 

Edited by Lorby_SI
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Posted (edited)

Hi Lorby,

Thx for your overview. Here a few corrections for the text about my program.

Initial setup: If you have FLAi installed there is no need to scan your livery libraries. 

The default update frequency is 25, the user-changeable range is 20..33. The app itself takes no more then 0.5 percent of your cpu. The fps drop in your sim depends on the number and quality of your AI aircraft.

Collision detection is default on, so  real live aircraft will normally not taxi through you.

Important functionality not mentioned in your comparison: 

PSXT can populate your origin and destination airport with static aircraft at gates. By self learning it knows which airlines park at what gates with what type of aircraft at what times of the day. The set of parked aircraft changes gradually over time. 

You can also use PSXT without a Real Traffic subscription. You then only have the static aircraft parked at gates. This is handy for pilots flying alone or on-line, that do not like (almost) empty airports. Now they will land and see a realistic set of parked aircraft.

Best regards,

Nico

 

 

Edited by kiek

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Hello Kiek 

 

i use your software with real traffic, i want to know why each time i fly to canaries aiports i only have maroco companies at gate ? Example GCTS Tenerife south 

thanks

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26 minutes ago, grandfred29 said:

Hello Kiek 

 

i use your software with real traffic, i want to know why each time i fly to canaries aiports i only have maroco companies at gate ? Example GCTS Tenerife south 

thanks

Please use my forum at AVSIM.

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1.jpg

 

Hello! What does the red color mean in the schedule?

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1 hour ago, BMW969 said:

Hello! What does the red color mean in the schedule?

 

It means the aircraft model + airline was not found in your local livery library (The one generated by the Aircraft Analyzer).

You can download the single livery via Avsim or flightsim and run the analyzer again.

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Ill give them this the support its good at AI LIVE traffic.  they responsed to my email quickly.

the thing that pains me is its only for one flight and i think it wont do long haul flights over 6-8 hours 

 

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