2 minutes ago, france89 said:

Word of advice, so far the Windows Store is not really on par with Steam. During the Sea of Thieves beta and even after release there have been lots of issues with it and for downloading the game.
On the other hand Steam is a solid, solid platform and offers way more things for the community too (workshop, forums, streaming, screenshots etc etc).

But it has been confirmed now that Microsoft have been working on a new gaming platform to substitute Windows store for its Xbox gaming franchise. And this one looks more similar to Steam.

And while in the past there was a "no steam policy" on Microsoft games, that has been changed and i really believe that we will get it on Steam  too. I am just not sure if we will get it from release or not.

No other store is on a par with Steam, Steam's structure is huge. They sell a lot, so they can keep the high costs.

11 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

Jokes aside, I really trust that Microsoft has the tech to build a top-notch ATC.

Its amazing how many seem to think that MS is just a bunch of clueless white-collar-sharks trying to make a quick buck by screwing their customers. In order to become one of the largest and most influential companies in the world you have to be good....really good actually!

They employ some of the smartest and brightest talents In the industry and yet, in another thread, one guy concluded that "Microsoft surely hired a video guy to produce a fancy trailer for MS FS"....oof...

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by Woozie

3 minutes ago, Woozie said:

"Microsoft surely hired a video guy to produce a fancy trailer for MS FS"....oof...

It amazed me a lot. Microsoft using their time on E3, with a lot of other games having to be put aside because of the time constrictions, and they let the studio put a fake video of a vaporware. 

Sure... 😂

24 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Another intangible is the effect of an open platform for user reviews on Steam. You don't control what's said about your product in those reviews. Running your own storefront gives you better control over both marketing and forum moderation.

Which as a user I like (developer not controlling the narrative).

That basically never works well, as the temptation to craft the narrative and squelch critical (but perhaps very honest and accurate) voices is too tempting for too many.

 

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by irrics

New article from PC Gamer. Can't say there is anything said we don't already know. 

https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-flight-simulator-was-the-low-key-best-reveal-of-e3-2019/

3 minutes ago, irrics said:

Which as a user I like (developer not controlling the narrative).

That basically never works well, as the temptation to craft the narrative and squelch critical (but perhaps very honest and accurate) reviews is too tempting for too many.

 

problem is that most of these user reviews are completely useless, way too many use this a way to express their dissatisfaction about particular aspects they dont like

"Game already crashed twice in 20 hours - literally unplayable!" -> 1 star rating

"Feature XYZ is missing - what were the devs thinking?" -> 1 star rating

(1500 hours on record) "Game gets boring pretty quickly, needs more free content!" -> 1 star rating

 

5 minutes ago, Woozie said:

problem is that most of these user reviews are completely useless, way too many use this a way to express their dissatisfaction about particular aspects they dont like

"Game already crashed twice in 20 hours - literally unplayable!" -> 1 star rating

"Feature XYZ is missing - what were the devs thinking?" -> 1 star rating

(1500 hours on record) "Game gets boring pretty quickly, needs more free content!" -> 1 star rating

 

That’s a different problem than developers controlling the narrative though.

There needs to be a third-party location to aggregate reviews where the developer has no say in what gets talked about. 

Even in Steam reviews, spend enough time and you will find nuggets of wisdom and truth within. The point being the developer can’t silence people that say things they don’t like. 

Basically all review systems require spending a little bit of time and reading between the lines to get the full picture. 

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by irrics

2 minutes ago, irrics said:

There needs to be a third-party location to aggregate reviews where the developer has no say in what gets talked about. 

Yes we already have that with Steam, but the abuse of the rating system makes it really difficult to get a non-biased rating for a product.  

So yeah, both types of users review sytems (dev controlled vs non-curated) are pretty useless imho. And even if steam (or any other store provider) would actively curate user reviews they could still be accused of preferring positive reviews to boost sales

1 hour ago, france89 said:

In Microsoft flight sims, okay. But did you ever try XP11 default ones?

No interest in XP11, sorry.

2 minutes ago, Woozie said:

but the abuse of the rating system makes it really difficult to get a non-biased rating for a product.  

I don't need a non-biased review system.  I can sort through what is useful or not quickly.  I'm sure others have figured this out as well.  I'd prefer to have an unedited review system rather than only being able to read what someone else thought would be useful.

BEST GAME EVER!!!111oneone - discard

What a piece of @$% JUNK! - discard

Too complicated - Useful information: tells me it's not a simplistic game

etc

Hook

9 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Yes we already have that with Steam, but the abuse of the rating system makes it really difficult to get a non-biased rating for a product.  

So yeah, both types of users review sytems (dev controlled vs non-curated) are pretty useless imho. And even if steam (or any other store provider) would actively curate user reviews they could still be accused of preferring positive reviews to boost sales

I disagree about the useless part.  

Third-party reviews/sites could be better there is no question, but they are not useless. 

The mere fact that that whole situation can’t be easily manipulated by developers and critical views can’t be silenced, alone, that makes them useful to some extent at least. 

As one example pop over to the Orbx Forums. Seemingly everything they post is just endlessly liked and upvoted and all the comments are positive and amazing and thank you and woo hoo… And if somebody says anything even sort of neutral it quickly gets passed over, or a delete or thread lock and/or other people shout that person down until the neutral or negative is silenced and just stops even posting. 

Developer Forums are basically only good for support. Truly objective commentary just won’t ever happen there

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by irrics

45 minutes ago, irrics said:

OK so I’m going to disagree with you. 

 

I didnt say i prefer "censored" user reviews, i simply stated my opinion that both ways are more or less useless, unless you want to spend time to filter out useless low effort 1 or 5 star ratings to get a realistic picture

Forums are a different story, my post was about rating based review sections only

 

1 hour ago, Woozie said:

Wow Ray, based on how little information we have at this point, your list of things that are NOT going to be in MSFS is growing daily 😉 

Call me an eternal optimist then. Why is it so unthinkable that MSFS will have a better default ATC than something that was developed decades ago? There are two main reasons why we still have ancient, sub-standard ATC in P3D: LM never really bothered to even touch ATC and 3rd party ATC addons have little to no control over AI traffic, unless using custom made traffic like Vox ATC. 

Honestly, its not really difficult to improve what we currently have in terms of ATC 😉

 

Woozie, probably because it’s not considered important enough or is too complicated to rewrite and get multiple voices recorded. You wouldn’t want those dreaded robotic voices would you?

With or without an SDK none of those I listed will be available on release day. Unless there’s an SDK there never will be. Until Microsoft come out and state what their intentions are we’re guessing. I’m more a half-empty person than a half-full one - hence my prediction.

If we haven’t had any improvements in ATC in multiple releases of flight sim expecting an improved one is optimistic indeed.

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by Ray Proudfoot

9 minutes ago, Woozie said:

I didnt say i prefer "censored" user reviews, i just stated my opinion that both ways are more or less useless, unless you want to spend time to filter out useless low effort 1 or 5 star ratings to get a realistic picture

Forums are a different story, my post was about rating based review sections only

 

Ok - well I didn't say you "prefer censored reviews".

But I disagree with your assertion that third party views are "more or less useless".

As you then said next - spend a bit a time and read the between the lines - a lot is there.

What's the alternative really?

Anything too moderated will be vulnerable to lots of different biases.  I'd much rather have a free for all and I'll go pick through it (vs the extreme opposite anyhow).  

 

Now - If a third party wants to be serious about it and let fair, but flaming at times, criticisms stand - I'm all for it.  Let the developer reply and let a thread get going there for all to see.  So long as the developer can't influence or moderate I'm fine with it.

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by irrics

11 minutes ago, Woozie said:

Forums are a different story, my post was about rating based review sections only

Yes - agreed.  I only mentioned the forums because other than the platform (MS or Steam, etc) having reviews, I'm not sure what the options are.  

The industrious among us will always seek more thoughts in a lot of places (youtube, other sites, etc), but for the mainstream customer, a first party platform review system is a good baseline to get a sense of things.

Edited June 18, 20196 yr by irrics