1 minute ago, ErichB said:

Actually, I think it is the benchmark for a number of reasons for civilian airliners along with FSLabs..  But is isn't a benchmark for how 'sims should operate' which were @Wobbiechosen words.

What does that mean? He should have been clearer about what me meant.

No, I am not bashing PMDG at all. I'm simply stating that there are actually simmers who do not use any PMDG products, & I'm one of them.

Why? very simple, there are simmers who do not fly civilian airliners, and therefore, any bench marking is totally irrelevant to us, and, as I said before, we are not lessor simmers for not using any PMDG products, than those who do.

Well, I applaud you for being an undergrad or a K-12 student  & use P3D as it is supposed to be used. 
I, and many others, use the sim for whatever we want to get out of it, be it factual, fun, or fictional... We are still, not lesser simmers that simulate real-world scenarios, as you do. 

By the way, we've built 3 simulators so far, an Avro Shackleton, using actual original controls,seats etc, an MB326 twin seater, in an actual fuselage, and am busy with a Harvard. These are so immersive, that pilots 'bump' in their seats, anticipating touchdown, so yes, the immersion factor is very real for us. 

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Wobbie

1 minute ago, ErichB said:

But P3D isn't going anywhere (as far as we know).  We will always have it.  So, it's a win win situation for everyone.

Is it a win-win for the developers like T2G, LatinVFR, FlyTampa et al? Those are small companies that specialise in P3D. How will they be able to get into the FS2020 market? And if sufficient people desert P3D then they could go under. I think the new sim is the worst possible news for P3D developers.

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Erich, you think that. I don't. Yes, the scenery looks brilliant but there will be a price to pay for that. It is moving in a completely different direction to sims of the last 25 years in that streaming and subscription will probably be needed. How that will affect performance is unknown. But what I do know is that with my current hardware on P3D v4 performance is excellent so why do I need to change especially when it's not known if there'll be an SDK? I'm not prepared to dump all I've bought and start again.

Because I have no desire to spend money on aircraft and scenery to replicate what I have in P3D. And P3D has seasons, XP doesn't. P3D can use AIG Ai with over 300 aircraft at EGLL. No equivalent is available for XP I believe. I'm talking about multiple commands for a switch, not a single one. Is that possible in XP? DCS does not interest me.

Neither do you and given the number of posts you have you have only been around here for 5 minutes.

Do you know if an SDK will be available? If not then the amount of independent 3rd party software will be limited because everything will have to be bought through Microsoft and that will probably make everything more expensive.

The whole issue was that phrase:

Quote

If you think that’s going to be possible with this new flight sim then you’re going to be disappointed. And can those commands be replicated on a base XP11? I doubt it. The reason FSUIPC has been around for so long is because it can do things base sims cannot.

You are wrong on your premise as other simulators are already able to do what FSUIPC does without any add-ons.  

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is it a win-win for the developers like T2G, LatinVFR, FlyTampa et al? Those are small companies that specialise in P3D. How will they be able to get into the FS2020 market? And if sufficient people desert P3D then they could go under. I think the new sim is the worst possible news for P3D developers.

They don't have to be able to get into that as P3D will still be a thing...

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by ca_metal

I've said what I came here to say and won't be discussing it any further.

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

And if sufficient people desert P3D then they could go under. I think the new sim is the worst possible news for P3D developers.

Every silver lining has a cloud.😀

The flightsim world has always spawned a development community.  Who'd have thought we'd fly again when MS pulled out the first time.   No need for doom and gloom.  Yet

8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I think the new sim is the worst possible news for P3D developers.

Wouldn’t Lockheed shutting down P3D be the worst news if you’re a P3D dev?

6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I've said what I came here to say and won't be discussing it any further.

That’s a great idea.

3 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Every silver lining has a cloud.😀

The flightsim world has always spawned a development community.  Who'd have thought we'd fly again when MS pulled out the first time.   No need for doom and gloom.  Yet

And that's one reason I'm no Microsoft word not allowed. I'm not saying you are Erich but there are plenty here who are.

LM saved the day and if the underlying code is still ESP that really doesn't bother me that much. I will stay loyal to LM. 64-bit has changed things enormously.

21 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Neither do you and given the number of posts you have you have only been around here for 5 minutes.

Do you know if an SDK will be available? If not then the amount of independent 3rd party software will be limited because everything will have to be bought through Microsoft and that will probably make everything more expensive.

Or maybe will put an end to overly high priced addons like FSLabs or PMDG.

Pay 160€ for an addon (it doesn't matter how good it is) is really too much.

However I am happy to see finally more and more people that take all this sim thing as it should be: a game, a hobby. Recently there were really to many user who took it really too seroius also treating else like sub-humans all the others that used FSX/P3D/XP11 like what they are: games. 

 

BTW the fact that some of us don't have thousands of posts active does not mean that our opinions il less important that yours. Are we really down at this level here? God...

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

And that's one reason I'm no Microsoft word not allowed. I'm not saying you are Erich but there are plenty here who are.

LM saved the day and if the underlying code is still ESP that really doesn't bother me that much. I will stay loyal to LM. 64-bit has changed things enormously.

They have just reacted to a market where 64bits were already the norm (DCS, XP11, etc)!! The same with PBR... 

LM is always re-acting and not really bringing simulation forward. 

With MSFS we are finally seeing some potential disruption coming from a big player, with the resources to push this market forward even more! How can someone be against that...

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And that's one reason I'm no Microsoft word not allowed. I'm not saying you are Erich but there are plenty here who are.

LM saved the day and if the underlying code is still ESP that really doesn't bother me that much. I will stay loyal to LM. 64-bit has changed things enormously.

I think that LM couldn't care less about us... They are a multi bilion US military corporation, they have far better earnings with real planes and weapons.

And I agree with wat @GCBraun said: they did not push this market forward by using a 13 year old badly optimized engine born as a videogame.

15 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

They have just reacted to a market where 64bits were already the norm (DCS, XP11, etc)!! The same with PBR... 

LM is always re-acting and not really bringing simulation forward. 

With MSFS we are finally seeing some potential disruption coming from a big player, with the resources to push this market forward even more! How can someone be against that...

Indeed, there may be disruptions.  That may be a good thing.  When I had to move from my Commodore to the X86 platform, I had to start over.  While I have a lot of money (may my wife never know!) invested in add ons for XP and P3D and former sims, I'm not so sure I wouldn't mind making a clean start with something very new and different.  

P3D, despite cosmetic surgery, has a very old heart and Austin at LR doesn't always listen well to what his customers want (seasons, better weather and more).   Let's see what Microsoft has in store and we can go from there.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by ricka47

1 minute ago, Flamingpie said:

That isn't a great idea at all and saying that it is is an even worse idea. As I said above we are simply thinking ahead and out loud and NO ONE should be pushed out of this conversation. Imho. If we can't even simply talk about what we like and don't like about a flight sim without jumping on each other this forum might better close.

I would agree with you, but calling people: "Microsoft word not allowed" and finishing saying he will be loyal to LM, no matter what, makes me think who really is the "word not allowed" here. 🤣

33 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Neither do you and given the number of posts you have you have only been around here for 5 minutes.

I've been a member of AVSIM for well over ten years, going way back to the Bush Flying Unlimited days well before the forum change.  Just because I do not post often doesn't mean I'm not here often.

 

You should assume less about things you don't know about, including FS2020.