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sightseer

Dear Microsoft - please include weeds

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So yeah...weeds...

I just read an argument over 'dirt'... because apparently there cannot be dirt in a sim.  there cannot be an area of ground that does NOT have grass or trees or something.  and so I think having both grass and brownish weeds would do wonders.  I don't know how to stop people from complaining that the sand is 'blurry' but Im sure there's something.  Sea oats maybe?  those low flat green plants that spread out in the sand?

 

seriously though, I think weeds would be great to cover brownish patches.  or a better detail texture methodology than shows up in the much discussed elephant scene.

if not clear -- Im serious about the weeds.  Its always bothered me that weeds and dead trees and thicket overgrowth never seem to appear in flight sim...only in real life.

and mild apologies to those arguing about dirt...because you've got to be kidding me!!  the dirt isnt high def!???  seriously.

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|   Dave   |    hey, I tried.

A short sighted man on a high plateau can't figure out why a man stuck in a ravine complains about the view.

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I thought we were talking about a Flight Simulator :unsure:


Bert

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8 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

I thought we were talking about a Flight Simulator :unsure:

Well, you have to see the weeds to land a helicopter smoothly, judging the height by eye in the last 20 feet. Doesn't work so well on a big pixellated blur. So there is some validity in wanting to see at least some kind of texture on the ground!

Without it, you also get that weird Twilight Zone effect at some smaller airports, of sharp runways that look like they're floating over a big blurry cloud. Autogen 3D buildings floating on a blur don't look so great either. 

I know this may not matter to tubeliner fans, who never see anything but a detailed airport and a big fat textured runway at both ends of the flight. 😉

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Primary sim is X-Plane 11 on Windows 10
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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At least make the dirt the right color!  🙂 

I was watching a video of someone flying not too far from where I live, and a lot of the fields were black dirt, something you don't see in FSX.  There is a lot of it in this area where for whatever reason there's no ground cover.

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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And maybe dirt on the windshield as well? I mean for bush flying... maybe with the same technology as rain drops?

Rally games have it for almost 20 years, it should not be so difficult.

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I was serious about the weeds.  It really does need something...scrub brush, weeds, rocks...something.

It just hit me the wrong way.  None of the current sims have perfect ground scenery and I thought it a bit much to ignore hundreds of 3D cities and an entire Earth  of 'True Earth' (lower res no doubt but same idea) and then nit pick over an area in the middle of nowhere.

but yes it does need something.

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|   Dave   |    hey, I tried.

A short sighted man on a high plateau can't figure out why a man stuck in a ravine complains about the view.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, LHookins said:

At least make the dirt the right color!  🙂 

I was watching a video of someone flying not too far from where I live, and a lot of the fields were black dirt, something you don't see in FSX.  There is a lot of it in this area where for whatever reason there's no ground cover.

Hook

 

What exactly is the right color of dirt?  and how to you tell from a satellite photo? is it dirt or is it brown grass?  its like with Orbx true earth washington -- its got a lot of brown and I suspect that its browned grass in many places but it looks like dirt.  Surely Azure could fix that.

In many of the places Ive been there is a red clay dirt but only ATS seems to get that color right when it appears on the roadside.  What we need is variety and texture.  A virtual catalogue of procedural plants and debris.

one of these days we'll be complaining that there are no ant hills anywhere. 🙂

and P.S: that sounds like oil to me.

Edited by sightseer

|   Dave   |    hey, I tried.

A short sighted man on a high plateau can't figure out why a man stuck in a ravine complains about the view.

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... and if you're in Colorado, please include.... weed.... :biggrin:

 

I'll get my coat...:dry:

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Mark Robinson

"What's it doing now?"

Greenbrier Aero Club former member

I made the baby cry - A2A Simulations L-049 Constellation

Sky Simulations MD-11 V2.2 Pilot. The best "lite" MD-11 money can buy (well, it's not freeware!)

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Now we know why you're called "High" Bypass, 😂

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Thank you.

Rick

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Lol Rick - lovely wordplay there! Actually I live a LONG way from CO. over here in England where it's not exactly legal :cool:

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Mark Robinson

"What's it doing now?"

Greenbrier Aero Club former member

I made the baby cry - A2A Simulations L-049 Constellation

Sky Simulations MD-11 V2.2 Pilot. The best "lite" MD-11 money can buy (well, it's not freeware!)

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51 minutes ago, sightseer said:

What exactly is the right color of dirt?  and how to you tell from a satellite photo? is it dirt or is it brown grass?  its like with Orbx true earth washington -- its got a lot of brown and I suspect that its browned grass in many places but it looks like dirt.  Surely Azure could fix that.

I'm not so sure about Azure fixing that. I'm not thrilled with the way Orbx TE Washington represents my hometown here in WA state, because the dominant color is that brown you're seeing. And yes it's grass, because most folks don't water their lawns here in the 2 1/2 months of dry season in Summer. Pastures, meadows, parks, and other areas dry out to brown as well.

Those areas should be green for the other 9 1/2 months of the year. It's why the official nickname of WA state is the "Evergreen State" for cryin' out loud! We're not the Everbrown State. 😄

It's the downside of scenery data pulled from only one source -- satellite imaging taken only during the driest part of the year, when there is minimum cloud cover. When my neighborhood is really green for the majority of the year, you'd never see it through the clouds!

As for Azure "fixing" this... how can it know that those brown patches in the lawns of my hometown are grass, and should be green for almost 10 months of the year? How does it know that a local park with an open field should be green because it's grass, when it might be sand or dirt? There isn't enough resolution in satellite images (at least the commercially available type) for an AI to tell what's actually on the ground. Trees maybe, but not individual blades of grass or sand.

So, while I agree with your original post that it would be nice to see some variety in vegetation on the ground, I'm skeptical about predictions on how Azure is a cure-all for parts of the world where MS doesn't have much data.

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Primary sim is X-Plane 11 on Windows 10
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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This thread is not a joke. More broadly this FS2020 should be designed from the ground up (literally) to render in detail at ground level i.e. grass, weeds, dirt mounds, swaying trees etc and as you gain altitude the graphics engine renders less and less ground detail. Level of detail LOD rendered by height above ground.

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Nobody is implying this thread is a joke but it can't be absolutely serious either. 

1. There isn't a single person here that knows what will or won't be in the new sim. 

2. Everyone here has a right to  their opinion just as you do. 

3. When we get some firm info from Microsoft it still won't be extremely serious because its a simulator ..not a matter of imminent doom. 

4. Unless it's approved by the FAA for training then it is explicitly entertainment. 

 

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Thank you.

Rick

 $ Bronze Donor

EAA 1317610   

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I'm not so sure about Azure fixing that. I'm not thrilled with the way Orbx TE Washington represents my hometown here in WA state, because the dominant color is that brown you're seeing. And yes it's grass, because most folks don't water their lawns here in the 2 1/2 months of dry season in Summer. Pastures, meadows, parks, and other areas dry out to brown as well.

Those areas should be green for the other 9 1/2 months of the year. It's why the official nickname of WA state is the "Evergreen State" for cryin' out loud! We're not the Everbrown State. 😄

It's the downside of scenery data pulled from only one source -- satellite imaging taken only during the driest part of the year, when there is minimum cloud cover. When my neighborhood is really green for the majority of the year, you'd never see it through the clouds!

As for Azure "fixing" this... how can it know that those brown patches in the lawns of my hometown are grass, and should be green for almost 10 months of the year? How does it know that a local park with an open field should be green because it's grass, when it might be sand or dirt? There isn't enough resolution in satellite images (at least the commercially available type) for an AI to tell what's actually on the ground. Trees maybe, but not individual blades of grass or sand.

So, while I agree with your original post that it would be nice to see some variety in vegetation on the ground, I'm skeptical about predictions on how Azure is a cure-all for parts of the world where MS doesn't have much data.

I'm not too sure that a smart imagery processing algorithm like Azure AI could solve this problem either.  However, you'd be surprised at what image post processing can achieve, and how by using mathematical techniques which utilize data not only from what is actually captured but also the surrounding terrain it can render an image that's pretty darn close to the real thing.

Unfortunately in regards to the "when is the grass green" question, we're back to the requirement that the rendering engine would have to know what to do based on the location and date, which requires some sort of database containing this information.  That data exists for ice and snow cover, but I don't know about seasonal data so that the engine would know that in a particular location in this date range the foliage should be brown/orange/yellow, the ground cover should be this tone of green, etc.

An update of the FSX seasons.bgl file would be a good start as I think this data could certainly be used for this purpose.

This is the main drawback for me where satellite/aerial imagery in the sim is concerned, i.e. that it is a single snapshot of an area on one particular day of the year and thus doesn't display the area as it actually looks for the other 9 or so months of the year.

Hopefully Microsoft will solve this problem.  They certainly have the expertise and resources to do it.

 

Dave

 

Edited by dave2013

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You want weeds in your simulator? Here's a preview video showing how weeds/grass etc can be modelled in Prepar3d (I think.) 

 

 

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Godzone Virtual Flight, for 'Real New Zealand' scenery

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