20 hours ago, pracines said:

We wont go backwards, so if we are just as happy with what we already have, then there will be no need for another that does not exceed what we already have.

Do you really think that MS would be foolish enough to deliver something worse (or at the very least, no better) than what we have now? What would be the point? They're a multi-billion dollar company - give them some credit. That said, we already have an indication that it's going to be better than what we already have - the scenery, for example! On the other hand, if they just converted FSX to 64bit and added stunning default scenery, weather and a few visual upgrades, I'm sure many here would buy it (I probably would). That is, after all, what many of us had been wishing for for years before the recent announcement. However, I'd be very surprised if that was all they were intending to do.

The complexity that I was talking about was primarily in the aircraft. Some people are asking for study-level default airliners which I certainly wouldn't want. Those people would then probably complain that it wasn't the specific type they wanted. The huge number of posts in this forum shows that, although we mostly agree on the basics, we all want something different from the sim and it's going to be almost impossible to please everyone. As long as third-party developers are able to produce the quality add-ons for the new sim that they do now, I'd be more than happy to leave the specialist aircraft to them.

20 hours ago, pracines said:

The insider program will be a venue to provide feedback, but if the feedback is not acted on (not just "listened" to or "responded to in word" form) it is totally useless, just like what happened to FSW.

Again, what would be the point of having an Insider program if you just ignore the comments - up to a point, though. I've recently been involved in beta testing some very inovative software where the product was almost killed off before it even reached the release version. Not because it had bugs (which were quickly being fixed), but because people were making unreasonable demands for esoteric features which were never intended to be included. Because their demands were not being met, these individuals then went on to the developer's public forum to complain repeatedly and vociferously about the product. Sadly, this gave the impression that the product was bad when, in fact, the opposite was true. Can you see a theme here (and we don't even have a beta version yet)? The lesson I learned from this is that there's nothing wrong with suggesting new features, but demanding them repeatedly is never going to achieve what you want. It's also better not to assume that because you want something, everyone else does ("we want"). We all have things we'd like to see included, but I'd personally be happy with a good, solid, modern base sim with all of the fundamental features working well and with the prospect of being able to add what I want to it later.

I think that anyone who's expecting it to come out of the box with every add-on that they've ever added to their existing sim (over many years) included by default, is going to be disappointed. I would like better scenery, weather, AI and ATC than we currently have and anything else will be a bonus.

 

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by vortex681

Hi Folks,

LOL - am I the only one pretty darn happy with P3D ?

Regards,
Scott

1 hour ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

LOL - am I the only one pretty darn happy with P3D ?

No, I'm super happy with P3D.  I've uninstalled FSX completely and now just fly in P3Dv4 which is hands down the best flight simulator I've ever owned.  It's literally a modern version of FSX and I love it.

However, one down side to P3D is it's a modern version of FSX from 2006.  It keeps a lot of the faults and old tech from thirteen years ago, and while Lockheed has done an amazing job and I happily keep giving them money for their new versions, it still just feels like a modern FSX.

This is why FS2020 has me so very excited: it's potential to finally be something MORE than a modern FSX is why I'm jumping up and down with glee at the very notion of this new sim.  A fresh start with modern graphics design optimized for modern hardware and amazing scenery.  Flight simulation needs to move forward, we need to leave FSX behind at long last, and FS2020 might finally be that bold first step into a greater experience.

I love P3D, but I'm salivating at the prospect of FS2020 being even better. 

What I DON'T like is waiting for more information on FS2020.  Come on Microsoft, give us a new screenshot every week!  Record more video for us to over scrutinize!  Post more dev blogs!!!  This excitement I'm feeling is making the waiting for info even harder.  I'm hungry for knowledge on FS2020, but, at least they have been communicative and that's been much appreciated.  I'd just like them to be even more communicative!  :)

 

I just hope I get into the beta process for FS2020.  I'll very happily devote tons of my time and energy towards testing the sim and making it the best it can possibly be.  Happily.  

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by Mengy

1 hour ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

LOL - am I the only one pretty darn happy with P3D ?

Regards,
Scott

People were happy with the pony express until railroads came along.

People were happy with railroads until aviation came along etc etc.

While P3D is nice and an improvement over fsx, it is extremely far from what FS could be and it is only so good because of the investments we make to enhance what the base sim doesn't have.

In its base form it is still a billiard table with boxes on top. Default aircraft are rudimentary at best. The lighting is odd and not realistic. No real world weather.

The core sim should emulate the world we fly in. Realistic lighting and skies, ground clutter, the feeling of movement through the fluid medium of air.

We will always have excellent aircraft to add to the sim but the critical thing is building the core model of the world we fly in. The simulation of flight is based on that base realistic world.

22 hours ago, irrics said:

How on Earth do you know gamers won't support the product?

They are too busy gaming, there are a plethora of shooter games available, and being released week to week.

I said "fully" support, and by that I mean, some may dabble in MSFS because it looks nice, but it will be boring to them after a few minutes.

17 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

Would you care to explain your contradiction here??

Look when I say we, I mean it. Meant for emphasis that communicates truthful history that realism rules this realm. But we also welcome new users, and welcome options in sim to make the sim welcoming to new users.

Trust me when I say I'm on your side, everybody else's here side, and I'm on Microsoft's side too. I'm not your enemy. I want us all to win.

another thing Im looking forward to with the new sims streaming scenery (as soon as I can do that without stutters and lags) is that, since its basically a mapping service, any time the map gets an update, it will appear in the sim.  if a city tears down a building or adds a few or if an new airport gets built or an existing one adds a runway or if a new highway goes in somewhere...all of it will stream right in (as the maps gets updated).

they might even eventually do real time traffic and maybe flooding and fires and anything that gets kept track of. (do not end a sentence a preposition with)

52 minutes ago, pracines said:

They are too busy gaming, there are a plethora of shooter games available, and being released week to week.

I said "fully" support, and by that I mean, some may dabble in MSFS because it looks nice, but it will be boring to them after a few minutes.

I think you are assuming too much about gamers. Don't forget that sims are mainly a game. So simers are a kind of gamer 😕 

People can play different things and support a product at the same time. I can't play the same forever. Sometimes I need to take a break and change or even don't play at all. But that doesn't means that I will never use it anymore. And that can be applied to other people. 

So as FSX, XP and other products have been and are played and supported by gamers, this game will be (even more if it's as amaizing as has been shown) . 

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by aleex

3 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

LOL - am I the only one pretty darn happy with P3D ?

Regards,
Scott

People can be happy with an existing product, but it is time for Flight Simulation to catch up with modern technology and from what it looks like, Microsoft will bring a Flight Sim platform to modern tech.

Hopefully flight sim users will no more be stuck in an application that looks 15 years old compared to current titles, which has been the case for a very, very long time.

4 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

LOL - am I the only one pretty darn happy with P3D ?

Regards,
Scott

You make a very good point, Scott, putting back these discussions in perspective. Reading some posts, one feels that the present state of things (P3Dv4) is a horrible mess that needs to be burnt at stake for a phoenix to be reborn from the ashes 😁 . It is not. It is the best sim we ever had. Now, it doesn't mean that it cannot be improved at many levels but happy with it ? Many of us are.

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by domkle

10 minutes ago, domkle said:

You make a very good point, Scott, putting back these discussions in perspective. Reading some posts, one feels that the present state of things (P3Dv4) is a horrible mess that needs to be burnt at stake for a phoenix to be reborn from the ashes 😁 . It is not. It is the best sim we ever had. Now, it doesn't mean that it cannot be improved at many levels but happy with it ? Many of us are.

Fair.  But I would just remind those that are happy with P3D (or even XP11), that many of us here aren't happy with them and don't use either anymore and basically gave up on this genre assuming "this was it".

There's a whole world of people SO excited about MSFS specifically for the promise of total reinvigoration and a ground up, modern start, on the hobby we used to love with a passion, but eventually just punted on.

MS should be eyeing a goal of getting us back involved and excited again, not just getting the leftover P3D and XP users to upgrade.  Grow the market.  Get the new, the young, the former -- get us all in the mix.

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by irrics

2 hours ago, pracines said:

They are too busy gaming, there are a plethora of shooter games available, and being released week to week.

I said "fully" support, and by that I mean, some may dabble in MSFS because it looks nice, but it will be boring to them after a few minutes.

Euro and American Truck Sim would love to have a word with you, not to mention Train Sim, Farming Sim, and countless others.  Your viewpoint is out of date, good simulation games (without any shooting!) are very popular and profitable in today's market, they sell well and players are willing to buy DLC for them.

If MS incorporates light gaming and RPG elements into FS2020 like ETS and ATS have then this new sim will sell like bonkers, because the flight simulation genre is missing a game such as this.  I have to think MS has already thought of this....

Hi Folks,

Yeah - I guess I'm more a "the cup is half full" type of guy - I thoroughly enjoy P3D and LM isn't stopping development of P3D because a new MS Flight Sim is announced - by all indications it's full speed ahead... Since they've been doing this for years - their development team has a serious head start and has probably hit its stride - while MS is just getting started again... I also tend to be more reserved with my expectations - much as I was when DTG was going to be the next GREATEST sim ever...

As for "default" content - - - I'd much rather both developers focus on the core engine and engine functionality - instead of wasting time on trying to be all things to all people by worrying about the quality of default content... There's no way MS or LM are going to invest the hours to be an A2A, Leonardo, Majestic class developer...

One major thing I'd like to be added to any sim is "inertia" - as I understand it - it doesn't exist in our flight models as they stand now...

Anyway - just my nickels worth...

Regards,
Scott 

2 hours ago, pracines said:

They are too busy gaming, there are a plethora of shooter games available, and being released week to week.

I said "fully" support, and by that I mean, some may dabble in MSFS because it looks nice, but it will be boring to them after a few minutes.

 

Hi, i'm 43 and i'm a gamer. I'm one of those you call "they". I'm playing simulation-games, i'm playing race games, i'm playing survival games, action games, sports games and VR. I'm actually playing whatever i want to. I've spent thousand of hours in flight sims, i'm simming seriously with proper flight planning, using so called "study-level-aircraft" to recreate real life flights, trying to follow SOP's and avaiation procudures to the letter and i've spent an ungodly amount of cash on flight sim addons. 

And i laugh about those who consider themselves a "simmer" and not a "gamer"....

10 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hallo Leute,

Ja - ich denke, ich bin eher ein Typ, der "die Tasse ist halb voll" - ich genieße P3D und LM stoppt die Entwicklung von P3D nicht, weil ein neuer MS-Flugsimulator angekündigt wird - nach allen Anzeichen ist die volle Geschwindigkeit voraus. .. Seitdem sie dies seit Jahren tun - ihr Entwicklungsteam hat einen ernsthaften Vorsprung und ist wahrscheinlich auf dem Vormarsch -, während MS gerade erst wieder anfängt ... Ich bin auch eher zurückhaltend gegenüber meinen Erwartungen - so ähnlich wie Ich war, als die DTG die nächste GRÖSSTE Sim aller Zeiten sein würde ...

Was "Standard" -Inhalte angeht - - - Ich würde es vorziehen, wenn sich beide Entwickler auf die Kern-Engine und die Engine-Funktionalität konzentrieren - anstatt Zeit damit zu verschwenden, alles für alle Menschen zu tun, indem sie sich um die Qualität von Standard-Inhalten sorgen MS oder LM werden auf keinen Fall die Stunden investieren, um ein A2A, Leonardo, Majestic Class Entwickler zu sein ...

Eine wichtige Sache, die ich zu jeder Sim hinzufügen möchte, ist "Trägheit" - so wie ich es verstehe - es existiert in unseren Flugmodellen nicht, wie sie jetzt sind ...

Wie auch immer - nur meine Nickel wert ...

Grüße,
Scott 

LM=FSX 

LM will definitely not get the license for the new MSFS. 

4 minutes ago, Woozie said:

And i laugh about those who consider themselves a "simmer" and not a "gamer"....

lol - I have visions of people getting dressed up in a little pilot outfit in front of their computer and popping on a boom mic headset, etc.

😀

 

(wife comes in...) - "Sorry honey, can't talk - I'm currently PIC while my virtual copilot uses the bathroom on our long haul between KLAX and KBOS"

Edited July 29, 20196 yr by irrics