PMDG and MSFS2020

[stevphfeniey 56]

3 hours ago, eslader said:

Well, that's why.

I don't see the need for two high-end 747's in the marketplace because I think almost everyone will buy one or the other, and that will dilute profits to the point where it may not be worth making either one.

But I definitely see room for a PMDG 747 and some other company's 727.

 

That's like saying we should only have one company that provides internet service because otherwise the profits of AT&T or Comcast would get diluted to the point they wouldn't bother. Out in the world yeah the US has several telco providers, but when one provider serves only one area and another provider serves another, the consumers get the shaft. Competition invariably leads to better products, more innovative products, better customer service, lower prices on the consumer end, and a healthier marketplace in general.

Edited October 4, 2019 by stevphfeniey

[Kilo60 660]

55 minutes ago, eslader said:

 What an asinine attitude. Some of us want a good-enough ATC that will cover us from gate to gate and not have us landing on top of other planes. We also don't want to irritate our spouses with several hours of radio chatter. VATSIM can't do that. There are significant chunks of airspace that have no coverage. How you can claim that's realistic is beyond me.

At any rate, the idea that those of us who want offline solutions don't "deserve" a better sim is absurd.

 

Well said!!!

[eslader 1,784]

1 hour ago, stevphfeniey said:

That's like saying we should only have one company that provides internet service because otherwise the profits of AT&T or Comcast would get diluted to the point they wouldn't bother.

Except that it isn't like that at all. 90% of the population of the USA has an internet connection. That's a really, really large customer base. The percentage of the population that is looking to buy high-end add-on jetliners for a desktop flight simulator is... Considerably smaller.

This is a niche industry just for basic sims. It's even more of a niche industry for customers who have the basic sim and are willing/able to plunk down significant money for add-on commercial jets. It's a better strategic decision to make a high-end airplane addon that no one else is making. 

 

[TechguyMaxC 516]

12 minutes ago, eslader said:

Except that it isn't like that at all. 90% of the population of the USA has an internet connection. That's a really, really large customer base. The percentage of the population that is looking to buy high-end add-on jetliners for a desktop flight simulator is... Considerably smaller.

This is a niche industry just for basic sims. It's even more of a niche industry for customers who have the basic sim and are willing/able to plunk down significant money for add-on commercial jets. It's a better strategic decision to make a high-end airplane addon that no one else is making. 

 

Clearly there are competing add-on developers in the flight sim add-on space.  Your view simply does not reflect the reality of the market.  

[stevphfeniey 56]

47 minutes ago, eslader said:

Except that it isn't like that at all. 90% of the population of the USA has an internet connection. That's a really, really large customer base. The percentage of the population that is looking to buy high-end add-on jetliners for a desktop flight simulator is... Considerably smaller.

This is a niche industry just for basic sims. It's even more of a niche industry for customers who have the basic sim and are willing/able to plunk down significant money for add-on commercial jets. It's a better strategic decision to make a high-end airplane addon that no one else is making. 

 

Alright then let me bring it down to scale and make things simple.

 

If the Greek guy (of which there aren’t many Greeks in the area) making baklava (which isn’t exactly an easy process) near my house has to compete with the Turkish guy (of which there aren’t many Turks in the area) making baklava down the block with neither going out of business, then one niche high end 747 can compete with another. 

 

 

[eslader 1,784]

54 minutes ago, TechguyMaxC said:

Clearly there are competing add-on developers in the flight sim add-on space

Making the exact same planes at the same quality level?  Where? 

There's a couple of 747's. They're very different in quality level and price, so that's fine. 

There's a couple of DA-62s. One is excellent and one is Carenado, and we all know what that means. Again, marked difference in quality, and I suspect the only reason Carenado's is still available (considering that it's 5 bucks less than the good one) is that they're a big company, they've already made it, and they might as well keep it available. It would astonish me if anyone who knew both planes were available went for the Carenado.

It would astonish me even more if a second company that only made one plane came out with a DA-62 at the same quality level as the one from Vertx and both companies survived.

15 minutes ago, stevphfeniey said:

If the Greek guy (of which there aren’t many Greeks in the area) making baklava (which isn’t exactly an easy process) near my house has to compete with the Turkish guy (of which there aren’t many Turks in the area) making baklava down the block with neither going out of business, then one niche high end 747 can compete with another. 

Hehe. That's closer to it, but it still wouldn't shock me if there are more people in your city who want to eat baklava than there are people on the planet who want to spend $100+ on an add-on plane for a flight simulator. 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by eslader

[F737MAX 5,608]

Mmm... Baklava

[Peter Clark 21]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:15 AM, Kilo60 said:

You are right that no feature is 100% out for the release but from what was said ATC implementation is not something they have figured out yet and quite possibly won’t be in the initial release.  They did also say the ATC is difficult to implement correctly and do well and it was something they were looking at but have not made a firm commitment to.

I don’t know if he’s still around but wouldn’t it be fun if the ATC was part of the streaming mode and they teamed up with John Decker (Radar Contact) to get the ATC processing in the cloud right?

[vortex681 806]

On 10/4/2019 at 7:56 PM, tarere said:

if you want ATC go register for Pilot Edge or even use Vatsim or Ivao.

But those services are not available in many parts of the world, need a decent Internet connection and even then, rely on a real person being available in the area you want to operate. An off-line ATC option in the sim may not be as good but has none of those limitations.

Edited October 9, 2019 by vortex681

[gryper 8]

There is no way in hades that this simulator will work with any advanced aircraft, in VR especially. I have enough trouble just getting the default A320 to not hog framerates. And I got a good rig and brand new. My VR framerates are barely acceptable with GA aircraft, maybe 30-40fps. But you throw PMDG on this thing and it will melt immediately. And PMDG in VR? No way. I dont see how they are going to figure this out.

[Carts85 1,203]

11 minutes ago, gryper said:

There is no way in hades that this simulator will work with any advanced aircraft, in VR especially. I have enough trouble just getting the default A320 to not hog framerates. And I got a good rig and brand new. My VR framerates are barely acceptable with GA aircraft, maybe 30-40fps. But you throw PMDG on this thing and it will melt immediately. And PMDG in VR? No way. I dont see how they are going to figure this out.

No offence but I think your speaking from the minority there. My own and many others experience very good performance and my PC is getting on now. Don’t forget the performance increases which are expected to from DX12. 

[Noel 4,503]

48 minutes ago, gryper said:

There is no way in hades that this simulator will work with any advanced aircraft, in VR especially. I have enough trouble just getting the default A320 to not hog framerates. And I got a good rig and brand new. My VR framerates are barely acceptable with GA aircraft, maybe 30-40fps. But you throw PMDG on this thing and it will melt immediately. And PMDG in VR? No way. I dont see how they are going to figure this out.

I have headroom for PMDG depending of course on how they code their stuff for MSFS.  I run all CPU-dominant sliders at Ultra, and the main thread ranges from 25% to 70% of peak utilization, with an average of around 35-40%.  So yes, I have headroom for PMDG 777.   Like several others here, some w/ the most experience at this and w/ the absolute highest end hardware, use the same approach I do which is to vsync to a 30Hz screen for liquid smooth performance and maximum headroom.  When you don't do this your CPU and GPU crank out as many frames as they can, and there is nothing left to accommodate something like my fav 777.  And yes, DX-12 and a new GPU will help ;o)

[FlyingInACessna 656]

1 hour ago, gryper said:

There is no way in hades that this simulator will work with any advanced aircraft, in VR especially. I have enough trouble just getting the default A320 to not hog framerates. And I got a good rig and brand new. My VR framerates are barely acceptable with GA aircraft, maybe 30-40fps. But you throw PMDG on this thing and it will melt immediately. And PMDG in VR? No way. I dont see how they are going to figure this out.

I have much better performance with this sim than I did with P3D or X-Plane 11 ever. PMDG has also said that there is little to no performance drop with the airplane, and if that’s the case, I see no reason to worry. 

[Noel 4,503]

10 minutes ago, FlyingInACessna said:

PMDG has also said that there is little to no performance drop with the airplane, and if that’s the case, I see no reason to worry. 

Really? That is great news if so and it begs the question, how the heck do they know?  I guess they know because they have their stuff largely already configured for MSFS but await an SDK w/ the rest of the hooks they need to deliver complex planes.  

[mtaxp 666]

11 minutes ago, Noel said:

Really? That is great news if so and it begs the question, how the heck do they know?  I guess they know because they have their stuff largely already configured for MSFS but await an SDK w/ the rest of the hooks they need to deliver complex planes.  

Or mostly talking about the 3d cockpit, which back in fsx days killed fps.

This has little to do with systems simulation, this will cost cpu cycles, unrelated to msfs, and we are yet to see how msfs will perform with a pmdg scale study aircraft. also in 2021, 30 fps wont do it. Cant see how msfs can achieve a stable 60 fps with a pmdg scale airliner, 60 fps is kinda rare on most approaches in msfs even when vanilla.