22 minutes ago, FlyingInACessna said:

I have much better performance with this sim than I did with P3D or X-Plane 11 ever. PMDG has also said that there is little to no performance drop with the airplane, and if that’s the case, I see no reason to worry. 

I am also getting pretty good performance with the FBWA320 with most settings on Ultra. I'm hovering around 30fps, and that is where I'm at with P3DV4, but everything is more fluid in MSFS. P3D settings are a mixture of full right and some lower settings. The difference is that I have P3D stuffed with scenery and AI, but I have AI turned off in MSFS (what's the point of AI right now anyway when all it does is kill FPS).

Once we get real AI and/or PMDG products, I'll dial back some of my settings and see where I'm at. I fully plan to buy a new GPU and monitor once supply is more stable and maybe the 3080ti becomes available.

In the end, my hope is to be running full AI, PMDG (or equivalent) aircraft, and addon scenery while maintaining a smooth 30FPS. IMO, aside from the full AI, that's was Asobo and 3PD's need to shoot for. 

21 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

Or mostly talking about the 3d cockpit, which back in fsx days killed fps.

This has little to do with systems simulation, this will cost cpu cycles, unrelated to msfs, and we are yet to see how msfs will perform with a pmdg scale study aircraft. also in 2021, 30 fps wont do it. Cant see how msfs can achieve a stable 60 fps with a pmdg scale airliner, 60 fps is kinda rare on most approaches in msfs even when vanilla.

I feel for you in 2021.  30fps is absolutely wonderful, liquid smooth and stutter free.  This is why others here w/ the highest end hardware take full advantage of this, while others believe they should be entitled to stable 60 fps in P3D or MSFS pretty much because it's 2021.   I heard this same nonsense from someone else here who insists because you can purchase high mhz screens that this implies they are a must have.  Nonsense!  I fully concur you won't be seeing a stable 60 fps unless DX-12 and an RTX 3090 save the day for you.  If you saw my screen right now I am 100% confident you would concur it's liquid smooth, stutter-free, no flicker, no eyestrain, just liquid smooth with ample CPU headroom.  I've run both, vsynced at 60fps and 30fps and they really are ultimately the same.  Also, the systems simulation piece has to be almost nothing to process on today's CPUs compared to the gargantuan task of rendering 60 or even 30 fps.

Edited February 6, 20215 yr by Noel

24 minutes ago, Noel said:

I feel for you in 2021.  30fps is absolutely wonderful, liquid smooth and stutter free.  This is why others here w/ the highest end hardware take full advantage of this, while others believe they should be entitled to stable 60 fps in P3D or MSFS pretty much because it's 2021.   I heard this same nonsense from someone else here who insists because you can purchase high mhz screens that this implies they are a must have.  Nonsense!  I fully concur you won't be seeing a stable 60 fps unless DX-12 and an RTX 3090 save the day for you.  If you saw my screen right now I am 100% confident you would concur it's liquid smooth, stutter-free, no flicker, no eyestrain, just liquid smooth with ample CPU headroom.  I've run both, vsynced at 60fps and 30fps and they really are ultimately the same.  Also, the systems simulation piece has to be almost nothing to process on today's CPUs compared to the gargantuan task of rendering 60 or even 30 fps.

I'm happy for you.

But this still does not deny the Fact that "60 fps gaming" is the standart in 2021. And there is a reason, apparantly people can very much spot the difference between 30 vs 60.

Picture fluidity can be affected beyond fps, so if you have a nice combo with 30 fps, great for you, i prefer a nice combo with 60fps. So does most of the world, otherwise there were no leaps towards anything above 30 fps. 

Edit: also, you have spare cpu overhead, that'a cool, but this is not how it works. MSFS will have to shoot draw calls, all of those systems that you see does that. DX11 is limited for in that term, so if i'm unable to reach 60 fps now..you are right i should just wait for dx12, but im not sure msfs has the "you can wait for "dx12 and buy an rtx3090" privelage anymore with what's happeing in other competetion. 

Edited February 6, 20215 yr by mtaxp

1 minute ago, mtaxp said:

But this still does not deny the Fact that "60 fps gaming" is the standart in 2021. And there is a reason, apparantly people can very much spot the difference between 30 vs 60.

Good luck in 2021, I'm sorry for you as it sounds like you are headed for disappointment!

It's important to appreciate your sim experience is going to be affected by many factors not least of which is image quality & complexity, smoothness & freedom from stutters.  You and I both know you will be dialing back complexity to cope w/ today's insufficient hardware to maintain a rock solid, stutter-free frame rate at 60 in an PMDG planeware, and most default MSFS planeware.  If you're willing to trade that in, have at it.

If you sat in front of my screen, flew MSFS like you normally would, that is to say did not create a test to determine whether you're at 30 or 60, I would bet you $100 today you would not notice the difference.  Important question I have answered for myself that you may not have:  have you personally compared vsync to 30 and vsync to 60?  My sense is most people here have not primarily because 30Hz-capable screens may be rare and also because it's 2021 and they ought to be able to run at 60 fps.  Good luck in 2021.

1 hour ago, FlyingInACessna said:

I have much better performance with this sim than I did with P3D or X-Plane 11 ever. PMDG has also said that there is little to no performance drop with the airplane, and if that’s the case, I see no reason to worry. 

Most notably, you go from CAVOK to overcast and it does almost zero to your performance. When I do the same in XP it goes from whopping 60fps to 25. Also the scenery doesn't impact the sim a lot. I get 30-40 fps over countryside and around 30fps on EDDK from Aerosoft.

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

Good luck in 2021, I'm sorry for you as it sounds like you are headed for disappointment!

It's important to appreciate your sim experience is going to be affected by many factors not least of which is image quality & complexity, smoothness & freedom from stutters.  You and I both know you will be dialing back complexity to cope w/ today's insufficient hardware to maintain a rock solid, stutter-free frame rate at 60 in an PMDG planeware, and most default MSFS planeware.  If you're willing to trade that in, have at it.

I'll answer by what i've just added to my latest comment.

But more, no im not heading to disappointment as msfs is really the only game/simulator that i have that i really cant reach 60 fps in, others even in VR!

Edited February 6, 20215 yr by mtaxp

33 minutes ago, Noel said:

If you sat in front of my screen, flew MSFS like you normally would, that is to say did not create a test to determine whether you're at 30 or 60, I would bet you $100 today you would not notice the difference. 

Not this again...

Always, whenever someone advises others 60fps is required for an excellent experience.

38 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

I'll answer by what i've just added to my latest comment.

But more, no im not heading to disappointment as msfs is really the only game/simulator that i have that i really cant reach 60 fps in, others even in VR!

Good luck when PMDG arrives which is how this reply began.

 Asobo used really poor coding techniques in the stock aircraft glass cockpit displays that result on huge framerate hits.  Both the FlyByWire and Working Title mods have improved this, so PDMG should be able to do the same.  

1 hour ago, mtaxp said:

I'm happy for you.

But this still does not deny the fact that "60 fps gaming" is the standard in 2021. And there is a reason, apparently people can very much spot the difference between 30 vs 60.

Ah, so we have decided that flight simulators are games then? Thank God that one has been sorted

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

Always, whenever someone advises others 60fps is required for an excellent experience.

Experience and capability to notice the difference are different things by a wide margin... I accepted 30 FPS in flightsims for years and now I am used to, but saying people would not notice the difference is just plain wrong. All my other games run at least with 60 FPS and that is the bare minimum for fast pacing shooter for example. 

8 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Experience and capability to notice the difference are different things by a wide margin... I accepted 30 FPS in flightsims for years and now I am used to, but saying people would not notice the difference is just plain wrong. All my other games run at least with 60 FPS and that is the bare minimum for fast pacing shooter for example. 

What I said to be crystal clear:  if you else sat in front of my screen and flew P3D or MSFS--not a fast pacing shooter, without doing some sort of test to validate whether you were looking at vsync to 30 or 60, you most likely would not notice the difference.  In a double-blinded test of sufficient numbers my guess is there might be signifcantly more who could, but the difference would not be huge.  

Remember:  it's a trade off in flight simulators now.  You are not going to fly into KORD in the PMDG 777 at 60fps stable w/ all settings at Ultra, unless some real magic comes out of DX-12.   If you feel you have to have 60fps (VR/TrackIR demands this I believe) then have at the compromises you will make.  I only make the statement once again for those who do not speak from experience in P3D/MSFS, which I do.

There is no need to contest my comments I am not telling anyone they must do this I am simply letting people know who assume, because 'it's 2021', they have to have 60fps in a slow-moving flight simulator.  Most have not experienced vsync to 30 which I believe is why the knee-jerk objection.

36 minutes ago, Noel said:

Good luck when PMDG arrives which is how this reply began.

And that's my point. Other simulators are able to have 60fps with a study-level system, msfs is rarely doing that with no addons. And the better graphics in msfs has little to do with that. modern graphics also target modern hardware thus can do even better in performance.

1 hour ago, mtaxp said:

And that's my point. Other simulators are able to have 60fps with a study-level system, msfs is rarely doing that with no addons. And the better graphics in msfs has little to do with that. modern graphics also target modern hardware thus can do even better in performance.

Ok. Sounds like those other simulators may be more your style. Not sure which sim you are talking about. I can't recall being able to lock in 60fps in P3D, but I also can't tell you when I last flew a vanilla sim aside from MSFS. P3DV4.5 with the NGXu with AI and other add ons puts me in the 30's with some dips into the low 20's on occasion. This is also very similar to my performance with FS9 and FSX with the high end hardware that was available at the time. P3DV4 didn't increase FPS from FSX; it just stopped the OOM's, for the most part.

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

Ah, so we have decided that flight simulators are games then? Thank God that one has been sorted

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you brought it up...😉