9 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Unless the proclaimed "offline mode" would be working like the FSX scenery system does now, and you could re-use legacy scenery products (or their developers could adapt them with limited effort). Just a thought.

Best regards

Totale agree with this.

The key element for everything is the SDK. 

Until this is available nobody in the 3rd party developers world (including freeware devs) can understand timelines, technology, what can be done, how it can be done, when can be done, etc.

Lots of IF at the moment. No point speculating, it is a game of sit and wait.

S.

 

38 minutes ago, simbol said:

The key element for everything is the SDK. 

Until this is available nobody in the 3rd party developers world (including freeware devs) can understand timelines, technology, what can be done, how it can be done, when can be done, etc.

Lots of IF at the moment. No point speculating, it is a game of sit and wait.

S.

 

Are you suggesting that people will choose one sim over the other because of the addons that are available? Isn't that only true if they already have a sim and know what they are looking for? What about new customers who see MSFS in the Windows Start Menu or in Game Pass, or on Facebook, YouTube, whatever, etc. The hype is just beginning.

As far as addons go, apart from not knowing what can be done, we don't even know if it will be necessary to do it.

Here is a speculation of my own: in the first week after release, MSFS will sell more copies than P3D did in 10 years. Then comes the moment of truth - will the online infrastructure support that many users? That has gone wrong for much bigger projects, and IMHO MSFS needs a safe fallback option. A "legacy-scenery-compatibility-mode" could provide just that. In the long run, the question will be if the new sim is engaging enough to make people "switch" (=not buying another sim or new version of another sim or an addon for another sim). That can happen through addons, but it could happen through simple "looks". Those seem to be very important...

Best regards

Edited November 10, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

I gave this idea of "entertainment" vs "professional" some thought and the only reason I could think of is "liability insurance."

I really don't think that LM will be that bothered, their product is aimed at training and MSFS 2020 is aimed at entertainment. However i do think sales from simmers will slow down. I bought V2 and V3 of P3D but wasn't happy with the development so have held off on V4. I would buy V5 however if it was radically different.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Are you suggesting that people will choose one sim over the other because of the addons that are available? Isn't that only true if they already have a sim and know what they are looking for? What about new customers who see MSFS in the Windows Start Menu or in Game Pass, or on Facebook, YouTube, whatever, etc. The hype is just beginning.

As far as addons go, apart from not knowing what can be done, we don't even know if it will be necessary to do it.

Here is a speculation of my own: in the first week after release, MSFS will sell more copies than P3D did in 10 years. Then comes the moment of truth - will the online infrastructure support that many users? That has gone wrong for much bigger projects, and IMHO MSFS needs a safe fallback option. A "legacy-scenery-compatibility-mode" could provide just that. In the long run, the question will be if the new sim is engaging enough to make people "switch" (=not buying another sim or new version of another sim or an addon for another sim). That can happen through addons, but it could happen through simple "looks". Those seem to be very important...

Best regards

You have AF2, XP11 and DCS already with plenty of nicer looks than P3D. There is a reason why people stayed with P3D all this time.

Looks are important, but more important is PURPOSE. Flying around beautiful raimbows all day long without purpose gets boring, you need always something new to try and experience.

This is what made XP, FSX and P3D successful. Having the ability to always put something new in your hobby is what keeps your passion alive and interested. It is simply put human behavior.

Once again the simulator is on Alpha, lots of time to wait and see how everything is going to turn out. Lots of hype at the moment for lots of unknown.. 

There is also the argument of when addons will be available. Mostly people think it is like waving a magic wand to make it happen 😂.

S.

 

Edited November 10, 20196 yr by simbol

27 minutes ago, Dazkent said:

I really don't think that LM will be that bothered, their product is aimed at training and MSFS 2020 is aimed at entertainment.  

 

 

To think that MS will not enter the institutional sector (flying schools or even the military etc.) would be wishful thinking from LM. 

38 minutes ago, domkle said:

To think that MS will not enter the institutional sector (flying schools or even the military etc.) would be wishful thinking from LM. 

If MSFS turns out to be what the hype is all about, I can imagine that there will be professional versions for flying school etc.

It is all about making a profit ..

3 minutes ago, GSalden said:

If MSFS turns out to be what the hype is all about, I can imagine that there will be professional versions for flying school etc.

It is all about making a profit ..

Version I don't know, special pricing I am sure 😏. 

1 hour ago, DJJose said:

I gave this idea of "entertainment" vs "professional" some thought and the only reason I could think of is "liability insurance."

That's what I have always thought. I reckon that Lockheed Martin couldn't care less what people use P3D for so long as they are covered legally.

1 hour ago, simbol said:

You have AF2, XP11 and DCS already with plenty of nicer looks than P3D. There is a reason why people stayed with P3D all this time.

Looks are important, but more important is PURPOSE. Flying around beautiful raimbows all day long without purpose gets boring, you need always something new to try and experience.

This is what made XP, FSX and P3D successful. Having the ability to always put something new in your hobby is what keeps your passion alive and interested. It is simply put human behavior.

Once again the simulator is on Alpha, lots of time to wait and see how everything is going to turn out. Lots of hype at the moment for lots of unknown.. 

There is also the argument of when addons will be available. Mostly people think it is like waving a magic wand to make it happen 😂.

S.

 

DCS gives wayyyy more purpose than any civilian sim. Floating around in a 777 falling asleep is hardly immersive. Now load that mother up with state of the arts weapons systems and learn how to use them at a study sim level whilst still being on top of navigation procedures and ATC is a whole new ball game on a way higher level

2 hours ago, DJJose said:

I gave this idea of "entertainment" vs "professional" some thought and the only reason I could think of is "liability insurance."

I would like to add distribution channels, resources and "image" to that list. Selling to a couple of million unsupecting users requires a different approach than selling to a couple of thousand experienced ones. And "image", because Lockheed still is a weapons manufacturer. If they made a computer game where you can drop bombs on people, that would feel at least weird to me (I remember that the US Army had their own computer game made, an ego shooter I think. Always found that odd.). I wonder how trying to sell a computer game to an AirForce general would go.

Many people see P3D as just another flightsim. It is not. Sure you can use it as a flightsim, but not only. It has gained many features that are of interest only to professional users, like SimDirector, SimOperator, CIGI and DIS intergration, Multichannel etc. And there are Avatars, ground vehicles, ships and submarines. Those were not added to please the gamer community either.

Best regards

Edited November 10, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

And since the data is being streamed and processed locally on one's PC, what about those users that have download data limits on their connection. as a number of Internet providers have now?

17 minutes ago, zmak said:

DCS gives wayyyy more purpose than any civilian sim. Floating around in a 777 falling asleep is hardly immersive. Now load that mother up with state of the arts weapons systems and learn how to use them at a study sim level whilst still being on top of navigation procedures and ATC is a whole new ball game on a way higher level

Exactly, that is the point I tried to make. Purpose is what makes a simulator worth it.

Regards,

S.

37 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I would like to add distribution channels, resources and "image" to that list. Selling to a couple of million unsupecting users requires a different approach than selling to a couple of thousand experienced ones. And "image", because Lockheed still is a weapons manufacturer. If they made a computer game where you can drop bombs on people, that would feel at least weird to me (I remember that the US Army had their own computer game made, an ego shooter I think. Always found that odd.). I wonder how trying to sell a computer game to an AirForce general would go.

Many people see P3D as just another flightsim. It is not. Sure you can use it as a flightsim, but not only. It has gained many features that are of interest only to professional users, like SimDirector, SimOperator, CIGI and DIS intergration, Multichannel etc. And there are Avatars, ground vehicles, ships and submarines. Those were not added to please the gamer community either.

Best regards

I did some more searching on the internet regarding the license agreement between LM and MS -  and found nothing. The assumption that the entertainment exclusion by LM is because of their agreement with MS seems to be an idea that has been brought up and spreaded by users in forums. I somehow took that for granted because it sounds plausible. But you pointed out correctly that there can be other reasons for the entertainment exclusion.

So after all we don't know if the entertainment exclusion is because of LM's agreement with MS or because LM's own internal reasons. Let's wait and see.

 

Edited November 10, 20196 yr by RALF9636