1 hour ago, RALF9636 said:

I hope we can finally get rid of that obscure term "study level" - whatever that means - and use "default standard" instead, because the default aircraft will define the new standard of excellence.

 

It's just a pompous term "cavern captains" came up with in the hope their real flight captain eats the fish.

9 hours ago, bonchie said:

Because of the lack of resources and technology. How many 3rd party developers can come up with sound scapes like shown in that video? Or have the level of detail visually via the new rendering techniques? Or have the actual manufactures helping design systems? 

I think some can (I can see PMDG and A2A spending money to meet those high bars), but a lot of other more volume driven developers who've made a living shovels out sub-par products (Carenado comes to mind) will have issues going forward. 

it is the game engine that render things so there won't be much difference between a developer and another if things in 3D are created right in terms of visuals.

On 1/17/2020 at 3:39 PM, Roadmaster69 said:

I would guess something like this:

They have been working for 5 years on this project now if my memory is good. With about 50 people. They probably went for a joint venture so Microsoft is probably paying a monthly fee to Asobo to work for them. 50 developers (in France salary + expenses for a developper +/- 4.500 $) This would be 225.000 $ / month salaries. 225.000$ x 60 months = 13.500.000 $

You add special equipment worth 2.000.000 dollars. Special expenses (travelling France/Seattle etc) Marketing budget / contracts / licenses for 5.000.000 $

My guess would be arround: 13.500.000 + 2.000.000 + 5.000.000 = 20.500.000 USD

not all developers earn around $4500 monthly in EU, maybe a hardcore coder like Lionel does, but most Devs get around $2000. Secondly, there are subsidies and benefits from the gov for big studios which employ a certain number of tech workers. Who knows if they really been developing for 5 years and how many people were involved from the begining?

Do you think 50 work stations, a couple of microphones and a shot gun mean 2 million as equipment?

The only marketing so far were two booths to show the game to a small number of Influencers involved in flying.

In my opinion they spent so far: 50 Devs monthly for 100kand that's 2.5 million in two years of team dev.

100k in workstations and 50k in fair booths.

2.650.000 so far

if the game cost $80, they will probably sell 60k copies the first year and that is around 5 million dollars, in the long term, 500,000 copies means 40 million dollars.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by mpozzi

1 hour ago, mpozzi said:

but most Devs get around $2000.

Completely wrong. (I am a French dev)

and we not talk about php dev but game dev.

and in France  if someone won 2000$, the employer cost is 2000*1.8=3600$

1 hour ago, mpozzi said:

In my opinion they spent so far: 50 Devs monthly for 100kand that's 2.5 million in two years of team dev.

They've mentioned having around 200 developers on the project and it's been in the works for 3 or so years now.

2 hours ago, mpozzi said:

not all developers earn around $4500 monthly in EU, maybe a hardcore coder like Lionel does, but most Devs get around $2000.

What?! No.

4 hours ago, mpozzi said:

it is the game engine that render things so there won't be much difference between a developer and another if things in 3D are created right in terms of visuals.

Add-ons in current simulators prove otherwise though. Without good modelling, animation, artwork and taking advantage of available rendering techniques, it is very much possible that there will be aircraft looking subpar and very outdated.

This applies to all games anyway. There are tons of extremely capable game engines right now, yet we still get AAA games looking like they could have come out several years ago, or with outright poor animation and artwork that immediately destroy the immersion. There are also quite a few old games still looking great today because of their smart art style and capable artwork, not because of the game engine.

7 hours ago, mpozzi said:

not all developers earn around $4500 monthly in EU, maybe a hardcore coder like Lionel does, but most Devs get around $2000. Secondly, there are subsidies and benefits from the gov for big studios which employ a certain number of tech workers. Who knows if they really been developing for 5 years and how many people were involved from the begining?

Do you think 50 work stations, a couple of microphones and a shot gun mean 2 million as equipment?

The only marketing so far were two booths to show the game to a small number of Influencers involved in flying.

In my opinion they spent so far: 50 Devs monthly for 100kand that's 2.5 million in two years of team dev.

100k in workstations and 50k in fair booths.

2.650.000 so far

if the game cost $80, they will probably sell 60k copies the first year and that is around 5 million dollars, in the long term, 500,000 copies means 40 million dollars.

 

 

 

Your name and the nimbers you're giving make me think you're italian. You're making the mistake of assuming that developers in the rest of Europe are paid as terribly as they are here in Italy. 2k/month is normal here, even a bit on the high side depending on the location, but for most other countries it's a low starting pay.

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by nikita

19 minutes ago, nikita said:

Your name and the nimbers you're giving make me think you're italian. You're making the mistake of assuming that developers in the rest of Europe are paid as terribly as they are here in Italy. 2k/month is normal here, even a bit on the high side depending on the location, but for most other countries it's a low starting pay.

So why is the pay so low, I'd assume to become a Dev, you'd need to have a University education to get employed as a dev in the first place?

9 hours ago, mpozzi said:

it is the game engine that render things so there won't be much difference between a developer and another if things in 3D are created right in terms of visuals.

The way they are creating the visuals is far more complicated and advanced than that of P3D. Things will take more time to get to the right level of detail now. You can't just copy and paste a livery anymore. 

But it's not just visuals. Look at the detail they are going into with sound in the latest Feature Discovery episode. There's also ample reason to believe systems depth will be substantial given they are working directly with the manufacturers. 

Developers that rely on pumping out sub-par content may not do so well in this new environment.

3 hours ago, eaim said:

So why is the pay so low, I'd assume to become a Dev, you'd need to have a University education to get employed as a dev in the first place?

No no, you can get a position even without a degree. A friend of mine is like this, he's making 1400/month and he's on the freaking moon about it. Even with a degree it's absolutely normal to receive less than 1000/month (and that's before tax) for the first couple years, this friend of mine was in this situation and because of this he's still living with his parents. But even if he had a PhD the pay would be pretty much the same. The causes, oh boy where do i begin. Devs being seen as a glorified pc tech, owners not caring about quality, owners thinking they're doing you a favour by employing and paying you so you should take it, be thankful and shut up, they're too many to list and it's widespread. There's a reason if mass emigration of young educated people, so called brain drain, has been a problem for years and years.

2 hours ago, bonchie said:

The way they are creating the visuals is far more complicated and advanced than that of P3D. Things will take more time to get to the right level of detail now. You can't just copy and paste a livery anymore. 

But it's not just visuals. Look at the detail they are going into with sound in the latest Feature Discovery episode. There's also ample reason to believe systems depth will be substantial given they are working directly with the manufacturers. 

Developers that rely on pumping out sub-par content may not do so well in this new environment.

And of course, we will be able to charge more... due the increased amount of time/cost to get these right.... ?  Right? 

Always the excuse to do things right the first time. I'll charge more.  

30 minutes ago, Milviz said:

And of course, we will be able to charge more... due the increased amount of time/cost to get these right.... ?  Right? 

Maybe. I think the product's quality will set the price standard, not just a spreadsheet of effort put into it. But I think you'll have a real shot to make up any increased production costs in higher sales volume. The possible increased market size looks to be massive with MSFS. Developers might even make more money long term with lower prices, making their products more accessible. 

Edited January 22, 20206 yr by bonchie

Wow even the lights have beads of water on them.