21 minutes ago, Heavy Metal said:

So is it confirmed that Steam will download and install the files also as decrypted files into a folder I have no direct access to f.e. to manually delete or reverify contents if something with the update(uninstall process should go wrong and I could end up with 100GB inaccessable data...(unless I hack myself back into the folder structure)? That would be bad. 

Heh, I assume with that perfect description of what you can run into with UWP games, you've had the pleasure of dealing with that sh*tshow at some point, thus rendering it more of a rhetorical question. But no, Steam release will be fully open because Steam doesn't do encryption once the games are released. Exactly like all other Microsoft games released on both the MS Store and Steam. 

Steam has an interesting function where you can stream your gaming session to a friend.  I've occasionally watched a friend play a game that I did not have in order to get some idea of what the game was about, or to have someone demonstrate something in-game.  It is also possible to request to watch a game in progress, and the player has to give permission.  You can chat during these sessions. 

There are probably mechanisms to do this outside of Steam but in Steam it is quite convenient and requires nothing extra.

I won't be buying on Steam myself, just a personal preference.

Hook

I've read numerous threads on this with pros and cons here, in the beta forum, in the Steam forum, elsewhere. I'm just as undecided as before. Maybe I'll throw a coin.

Kind regards, Michael

15 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Steam has an interesting function where you can stream your gaming session to a friend.  I've occasionally watched a friend play a game that I did not have in order to get some idea of what the game was about, or to have someone demonstrate something in-game.  It is also possible to request to watch a game in progress, and the player has to give permission.  You can chat during these sessions. 

There are probably mechanisms to do this outside of Steam but in Steam it is quite convenient and requires nothing extra.

I won't be buying on Steam myself, just a personal preference.

Hook

Another interesting feature of Steam is the ability to hook up, remap and configure almost any controller device even when the game doesn't support it natively, without having to install all sorts of additional third party software. Then you tell it which controller to emulate and then remap your device accordingly. Even manually set sensitivity, deadzones and the likes. 

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by Sethos

27 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Heh, I assume with that perfect description of what you can run into with UWP games, you've had the pleasure of dealing with that sh*tshow at some point, thus rendering it more of a rhetorical question. But no, Steam release will be fully open because Steam doesn't do encryption once the games are released. Exactly like all other Microsoft games released on both the MS Store and Steam. 

Yes, unfortunately. All the other topics are more or less convenience or personal preferences and I see some advantages for myself on both platforms.  Amd as I use both and therefore have both options available, I would like to know which might cause less issues in the long run before I make my decision. 

I had to re-download a 100 GB Game in MS Store three times because of some glitches rendering it unuseable after a certain time. I would have wished for a revalidation of game files and only download the corrupted ones f.e. , especially as my internet speed was far less than today. And after the second download it did not delete / uninstall it correctly and I had some trouble of freeing up 100 GB on my SSD (which only has had 250 GB at that time)... I have read of several other users having such issues. So I was not happy to be excluded from folders on my own PC I spent lots of money on.

Of course, there is always a way and it does not mean that I might run into such issues again with MSFS at all .. yet it has left a bitter taste. Furthermore I love it to move some steam installations on an external harddrive and just copy it back when needed, and Steam recognizes it immediately and just downloads files which have changed since then. 

And now that ORBX offers discount for users when buying MSFS add-ons through their own store instead of MS , then I would like to know if I could run into an issue with such installations (ORBX loves to alter files in the main directories in P3D f.e.) or if this is completely handled outside of the MS files (I guess it has to be, else I would wonder why a TPD would be able to access folders/files on my PC that I don´t...)

Besides of this, and as most users say I also assume that there will be no difference in regards to updates or marketplaces as it would not be in any interest of MS to have so. 

13 minutes ago, Sethos said:

Another interesting feature of Steam is the ability to hook up, remap and configure almost any controller device even when the game doesn't support it natively, without having to install all sorts of additional third party software.

Oh really??  That might come in handy if it works for MSFS.  I've never had a Steam game that used a controller.

Hook

4 minutes ago, Heavy Metal said:

Yes, unfortunately. All the other topics are more or less convenience or personal preferences and I see some advantages for myself on both platforms.  Amd as I use both and therefore have both options available, I would like to know which might cause less issues in the long run before I make my decision. 

I had to re-download a 100 GB Game in MS Store three times because of some glitches rendering it unuseable after a certain time. I would have wished for a revalidation of game files and only download the corrupted ones f.e. , especially as my internet speed was far less than today. And after the second download it did not delete / uninstall it correctly and I had some trouble of freeing up 100 GB on my SSD (which only has had 250 GB at that time)... I have read of several other users having such issues. So I was not happy to be excluded from folders on my own PC I spent lots of money on.

Of course, there is always a way and it does not mean that I might run into such issues again with MSFS at all .. yet it has left a bitter taste. Furthermore I love it to move some steam installations on an external harddrive and just copy it back when needed, and Steam recognizes it immediately and just downloads files which have changed since then. 

And now that ORBX offers discount for users when buying MSFS add-ons through their own store instead of MS , then I would like to know if I could run into an issue with such installations (ORBX loves to alter files in the main directories in P3D f.e.) or if this is completely handled outside of the MS files (I guess it has to be, else I would wonder why a TPD would be able to access folders/files on my PC that I don´t...)

Besides of this, and as most users say I also assume that there will be no difference in regards to updates or marketplaces as it would not be in any interest of MS to have so. 

Trust me, stories like yours and my own experiences with UWP are exactly why I'm so adamant that people know the full picture and make an informed decision where to get it from, not relying on people's gut feelings that they will be the same. A friend of mine just two weeks ago went through hell with Forza Horizon, after he accidentally installed it on his project drive, where the installation just vomits 3-4 random folders into the root of the drive. Yes, you don't get to specify a path when you pick. So he had to get rid of it again and found himself spending almost 2 hours just to get rid of those hellishly encrypted folders and have Windows 10 recognize the game was actually gone. 

I would absolutely hate to see fellow simmers end up with a bad experience because they chose a different store, especially because flight sims are so heavy on modifying and accessing files, the absolute bane of UWP applications. People forget there's already a lengthy history with UWP games, that are also on Steam. 

As for your case, unless you plan on flying on Xbox to get the PlayAnywhere functionality, I would 100% get it on Steam. That's one of those cases where you got burnt and might as well go for the open, easier and proven option. Also, all the OrbX discounts hinges on your OrbX account, something that probably won't be recognized on the internal store and you have to use OrbX's own software anyway. They also rely on symbolic links now, meaning they should be able to continue the current trend of making dedicated folders for your addons that simply symlink into the appropriate folders. So no need to clutter the main install. Plus, I would assume Microsoft / Asobo learned a lesson or two in terms of addon installation, making it much more streamlined without having to drop hundreds of files into core folders? One would hope...

7 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Oh really??  That might come in handy if it works for MSFS.  I've never had a Steam game that used a controller.

Hook

Absolutely, it even recognizes flight peripherals. Come to think of it, could actually be a very powerful feature for some simmers. Especially if there's something the sim doesn't recognize or allows you to tweak properly, you could emulate it as a different device, set it up and map it how you like it.

42 minutes ago, pmb said:

I've read numerous threads on this with pros and cons here, in the beta forum, in the Steam forum, elsewhere. I'm just as undecided as before. Maybe I'll throw a coin.

Kind regards, Michael

Your not alone friend I'm right there with you,I will probably wait for a week after release or until there is more evidence around add one etc

On a sidenote, the Beta has no UWP and is just a plain file system place like we know from before. And didn't we want a sim where we do not need to tweak files ;) just kidding...

Cheers

T.

1 hour ago, Torsen said:

On a sidenote, the Beta has no UWP and is just a plain file system place like we know from before. And didn't we want a sim where we do not need to tweak files 😉 just kidding...

Cheers

T.

Really? That's some really good news!  

It's a beta though, not a public release...so why would you expect it to have any copy protection? The retail release will either be using Steam's protection or the MS store protection (whatever that is, encryption maybe?).

From my own gaming experience with Steam (keeping in mind I never bothered installing FSX:SE) the folder structure is pure and not a garbled encrypted mess (once you get to your game's main folder, that is).

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by hangar

as for MS vs Steam I would go for MS directly if you plan to "play" MSFS also on the XBOX:

Q: Will people that have the sim on Steam be able to play together with people from Microsoft Store?

A: Yes, the sim shares the same multiplayer world, content and services. However, if you purchase through steam, you will not be able to use the Xbox Play Anywhere functionality (PC Windows 10 and Console).

30 minutes ago, hangar said:

It's a beta though, not a public release...so why would you expect it to have any copy protection? The retail release will either be using Steam's protection or the MS store protection (whatever that is, encryption maybe?).

From my own gaming experience with Steam (keeping in mind I never bothered installing FSX:SE) the folder structure is pure and not a garbled encrypted mess (once you get to your game's main folder, that is).

Sure it is Beta only, but why should the retail differ? The installer asks you where to install and without valid ms account you can't play anyway. Interesting question out of this is how it will handle offline mode!? Good question. We don't know it for retail version yet and all speculation. Btw I prefer MS store cause of the play anywhere point. But that counts only as an argument if you have or planning to have an xbox too.

Cheers

T.

8 minutes ago, Torsen said:

Sure it is Beta only, but why should the retail differ?

Because you'll be running it from a platform which automatically enforces copy protection on all of it's games. Both MS store and Steam use their own form of copy protection on everything that gets installed on your computer.

Do you check task manager after running a game to see how many task steam runs still after exit. i shut it down after exiting steam with task manager.

Edited August 10, 20205 yr by G-RFRY