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Flight Simulator 2020 Graphics Issues: An In-Depth Analysis

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@Nyxx

Constructive critism is nit picking for you? And I agree about the rdr clouds, they look fantasic even though It released on a console. And rdr also has cirrus clouds. 🙂

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7 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

The only thing that would require considerably more graphical power is probably the amount of voxels to draw the clouds. The rest seems to be a matter of tweaking what has already implemented, and the AI maturing. Not that such a process wouldn't take a lot of time though.

But Asobo probably already know what needs to be improved and I'm confident they will do so in time. They've worked so hard in taking care of so many details that previous simulators would never dream of, they likely won't just let those things slide.

Better Ambient Occlusion and AI traffic would have a definite performance hit.


FSX | DCS | X-Plane 11 | MSFS 2020 | IL2:BoX

Favorite aircraft currently: MSFS Savage Cub

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15 minutes ago, Kaan KASIM said:

@Nyxx

Constructive critism is nit picking for you? And I agree about the rdr clouds, they look fantasic even though It released on a console. And rdr also has cirrus clouds. 🙂

This sim is ground breaking in so many way and a guy makes a video showing a baked in shadow in Venice square, yer to me coming from years of P3D and using PR. It’s nitpicking, it’s also not the release version so imo let’s wait and at least let’s see what we really get before giving “constructive criticism” and comparing it to red dead redemption that’s world is the size of a small island to the world MSFS is bringing to us.

Like I said the only good point was the lack of cirrus clouds.

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The ambient occlusion issue was apparent to me right from the first reveal trailer. For me personally I find it the worst aspect of the sim’s graphics. I know there’s an AO setting in the game but can’t remember if it’s an on/off or degree of implementation.

For the clouds lined up in a regular pattern, I think he chose the worst examples that have been shown so far. I’ve been looking out for it, especially in the water, but think they’ve done an excellent job actually.

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30 minutes ago, Slides said:

Better Ambient Occlusion and AI traffic would have a definite performance hit.

The simulator is likely using HBAO which is what most games nowadays use, which means that if they tweaked the implementation to look less bold, there wouldn't be more of a performance hit. The video says that there is actually too much ambient occlusion, even in direct lighting where it's not really needed, which means that overall performance could even be slightly improved if they trimmed it down a bit.

Improving the logic of the AI cars would probably take some more CPU work, but there seems to be enough CPU headroom already, and there are improvements that can be made to the road path finding in the satellite imagery by the offline AI work. And there is always the traffic density slider to tweak performance to one's liking, personally I would trade some of the traffic density if it were smarter.

9 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

This sim is ground breaking in so many way and a guy makes a video showing a baked in shadow in Venice square, yer to me coming from years of P3D and using PR. It’s nitpicking, it’s also not the release version so imo let’s wait and at least let’s see what we really get before giving “constructive criticism” and comparing it to red dead redemption that’s world is the size of a small island to the world MSFS is bringing to us.

Considering that Asobo are making a multi-generational leap with just one product, which is an impressive feat considering that other well-funded simulators stalled progress for so long, it does feel hard at times to criticise even some of the more obvious issues. But pointing out some of the finer issues in a constructive manner (which sadly is rarely the case) is in good intention, and it happens because people love what they have done and want to help make it even better. Also the latest footage is pretty much the release version, if they are going to focus on something right now it is mitigating the show-stopping bugs and improving compatibility.

As for Red Dead Redemption 2, the comparison was made with regard to the cloud lighting, which has no bearing on the map size. And for the inherent issues of the satellite imagery, perhaps the complaint could be somewhat far-fetched, but at least he's explaining how the AI could fix those.

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19 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Like I said the only good point was the lack of cirrus clouds.

Wispy clouds will come I am sure. Yes, I would never have imagined such criticism, in view of the leap in technology. The author of the video is a CGI artist, so I guess no one better to identify issues in graphics. I would never notice those issues pointed out, especially in flight! But, constructive criticism is good and leads to improvements. 

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1 hour ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

But Asobo probably already know what needs to be improved and I'm confident they will do so in time. They've worked so hard in taking care of so many details that previous simulators would never dream of, they likely won't just let those things slide.

True. If this release would be a kind of FSX release with one or two service packs to expect, I'd be happy for an innovative sim.

Since MS & ASOBO announced to keep improving it regularly, I am confident this will develope into something truly awesome.

Edited by tweekz
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8 minutes ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

The simulator is likely using HBAO which is what most games nowadays use, which means that if they tweaked the implementation to look less bold, there wouldn't be more of a performance hit. The video says that there is actually too much ambient occlusion, even in direct lighting where it's not really needed, which means that overall performance could even be slightly improved if they trimmed it down a bit.

Improving the logic of the AI cars would probably take some more CPU work, but there seems to be enough CPU headroom already, and there are improvements that can be made to the road path finding in the satellite imagery by the offline AI work. And there is always the traffic density slider to tweak performance to one's liking, personally I would trade some of the traffic density if it were smarter.

 

For all we know Asobo is using some cheap version of AO that has less of a performance hit but also why it has visual issues. Agree in theory about the AI cars still having CPU cycles to work with but I suspect the biggest issue will be making the AI cars understand the auto generated roads and their placements. 


FSX | DCS | X-Plane 11 | MSFS 2020 | IL2:BoX

Favorite aircraft currently: MSFS Savage Cub

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17 minutes ago, tweekz said:

True. If this release would be a kind of FSX release with one or two service packs to expect, I'd be happy for an innovative sim.

Since MS & ASOBO announced to keep improving it regularly, I am confident this will develope into something truly awesome.

Such a shame that Microsoft stopped any work on both a third service pack and the Flight Simulator 11 engine. If the CPU optimisations that went into Microsoft Flight are any indication, we could have something so much better to hold us up all these years. But at least they are completely making up for all the lost progress now.

12 minutes ago, Slides said:

For all we know Asobo is using some cheap version of AO that has less of a performance hit but also why it has visual issues.

Sadly the settings menu does not specify what type of ambient occlusion is used, but what we're seeing in the official footage, which I assume is the Ultra setting, looks like HBAO to me. SSAO usually imposes some very obvious halos around objects and can become very inaccurate at a distance, though HBAO isn't free of visual issues as well. The large and dark blobs below objects seem to be more of an implementation issue, which does not really happen in most games even with SSAO, which is why I think this can be improved with no performance penalty.

Regarding higher-quality options, VXAO exists (which is based on voxels), and it can be done with ray-tracing too. It wouldn't be surprising if the latter became an option in the future.

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

This sim is ground breaking in so many way and a guy makes a video showing a baked in shadow in Venice square, yer to me coming from years of P3D and using PR. It’s nitpicking,

Nyxx, I wouldn't call what he's doing "nitpicking" but rather useful feedback for the developers.  

I'd already seen everything he talked about with the exception of the ambient occlusion.  The only thing that bothers me is the uncanny valley effect of the clouds.  

He should have gotten a still from a video of the Washington Monument.  It not only has the baked in shadow and actual monument, it has a second shadow from the sim. 🙂 I seldom even notice the doubled shadows myself and they don't bother me.

People will eventually have to accept that this is a flight simulator on a desktop computer and it will have artifacts. And learn to overlook them.  It's all good in the end.

Hook

Edited by LHookins
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2 hours ago, flying_w said:

Nice to see some constructive criticism.  The road traffic looks similar to the original FSX implementation of the same, I wonder if this code took any re-engineering on the journey to 2020.

From someone who works reviewing and dealing with car insurance claims on a daily bases. I can confirm the crazy AI road traffic is pretty accurate to real life.

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The more that I think about it, the more I disagree with him about the clouds. Clouds in real life can look really weird at times. He's comparing certain types of clouds with what's in MSFS. The fact is that MSFS doesn't model as many types of clouds as in real life.

Like look at these clouds. If they were in MSFS, some would say they are unrealistic.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureIsword not allowedingLit/comments/hz5tz9/sea_of_clouds_looking_like_a_painting/

 


FSX | DCS | X-Plane 11 | MSFS 2020 | IL2:BoX

Favorite aircraft currently: MSFS Savage Cub

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11 minutes ago, Slides said:

The more that I think about it, the more I disagree with him about the clouds. Clouds in real life can look really weird at times. He's comparing certain types of clouds with what's in MSFS. The fact is that MSFS doesn't model as many types of clouds as in real life.

Like look at these clouds. If they were in MSFS, some would say they are unrealistic.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureIsword not allowedingLit/comments/hz5tz9/sea_of_clouds_looking_like_a_painting/

 

I agree. I've seen pictures and videos of scary and unrealistic looking clouds, that if I saw them in real life I would think they were harbingers of the end of all things!

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8 minutes ago, Slides said:

Straight out of Independence Day.... Just waiting for the nose of the mothership to poke through.......


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

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