IFR planes are like arcade planes so far?

[badderjet 181]

34 minutes ago, Colonel X said:

The A320 Neo is a joke, but not much more was expected. Landing this thing, I wish it was "Arcade", it's just really, really bad. Coming from X-Plane's default 737, there is no comparison.

That’s correct. You can’t (and shouldn’t) compare a 737 to a 320. 

 

[Colonel X 1,430]

1 minute ago, badderjet said:

That’s correct. You can’t (and shouldn’t) compare a 737 to a 320. 

 

Of course I agree a 320 will never fly as "smooth" as a 737 (by design). What I was trying to say was, the 737 in X-Plane is a refined, well tuned and experience from start to finish. It lacks some system depth, but flying it is very satisfying, from the FMOD sound to it's bird like sensitivity on approach. It's a joy to fly. That cannot be said about the FS 320 - on approach it feels like carrying a tray with 10 beer bottles.

[roi1862 602]

One thing i noticed on all props is there is almost no need to coordinate turns with rudder. The ball almost never moves much from center. And i have all settings on life-like (hard).

[robert young 2,897]

49 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

if one is aeronautical  engineer ? 🙂

I know experienced pilots who either do not care about or ignore flaws in sim flight models. I also know low hours pilots or non-pilots who have taken the trouble to understand how an aircraft should behave and are very perceptive when they look closely at how sim aircraft fly. There is no guarantee that either category is right or wrong. But if they make rational explanations and illustrate their views with examples that helps.

There is a lot of confusion here and mixed up perceptions on the difference between so-called joystick sensitivities and the actual flight model. They are in fact linked quite closely. Most joysticks except the very expensive ones or the very cheap ones have very similar total movement available. If you pull a stick back a little (however "sensitive" it is) while travelling at a  very low airspeed and the aircraft suddenly bucks up and down, there is something wrong, but not with your controller.

If you are taxiing in a small aircraft at 12-15 knots and a bit of rudder pedal makes the aircraft squirm suddenly and turn as though it was a car on full steering lock, there is something badly wrong, but not with your rudder pedals or their "sensitivity".

There is a misunderstanding about what "sensitivity" means. Joysticks cannot produce more control authority than is already there in the sim. They can only distribute the total available control surface reaction over a curve, or in some cases by the sim slowing down the response when at "low" sensitivity. If your stick is producing wild and implausible movements in an aircraft with linear or neutral settings, then it is entirely an issue with the flight model, not with the stick.

In this regard this sim is likely no different from other sims. If your sim aircraft is moving ridiculously quickly in any axis and is clearly breaching Newtonian laws of motion, or appears to have almost no inertia, or reacts excessively to modest input, then you can't keep blaming the control sensitivity. If you have to adapt your stick movements like you are on eggshells so you hardly move the thing at all, then whatever sensitivity curves you have set up, there is still something seriously wrong with the flight model. While it might help to adjust your joystick in the settings, it is in many cases masking a fundamental flaw in the flight model.

The only exception to this is where it might be possible to adjust your sensitivity curves so that 60-80% total control authority was achieved in only the first two millimetres of stick movement. I doubt very much that setting is possible, but if it was, that would certainly make the aircraft unflyable.

Edited August 18, 2020 by robert young

[RustyFlyer 182]

31 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Doesn't matter on avsim. Every armchair simmer feels free to comment on flight models (while pushing around a $20 plastic joystick on their desk.

Not sure which century you are referring too. I think that the last time there were reasonable $20 joysticks around was when Tyrannosaurus dinosaurs were still roaming.

[7478i 9]

Unless you fly these aircraft in real life, you don't have the qualifications to compare these aircraft to real life. 

FWIW some real world ga pilots have commented on the ga aircraft and were praising the flight dynamics. 

[sd_flyer 6,042]

14 minutes ago, 7478i said:

Unless you fly these aircraft in real life, you don't have the qualifications to compare these aircraft to real life. 

FWIW some real world ga pilots have commented on the ga aircraft and were praising the flight dynamics. 

Well you can be en engineer and compare performance values, graph them, compare them 🙂 

[hangar 661]

37 minutes ago, roi1862 said:

One thing i noticed on all props is there is almost no need to coordinate turns with rudder. The ball almost never moves much from center. And i have all settings on life-like (hard).

On ALL the prop planes, seriously? Well I shouldn't sound so surprised but I was hoping for at least 1 or 2 proper flying defaults... but every morning I tune in here I'm reminded more and more that, nah not going to happen yet.

[Dominique_K 10,146]

41 minutes ago, roi1862 said:

One thing i noticed on all props is there is almost no need to coordinate turns with rudder. The ball almost never moves much from center. And i have all settings on life-like (hard).

What does happen when on a straight flight you push a pedal all the way ? 

[KenG 492]

Your controls need to be tuned and that can take a bit to get right. Once I got my controls setup properly the airplanes felt much better for a set of cheap controls.

The avionics and systems are very basic. What did you expect from a default airplane in software that was rushed into release. 

[pty1973cm 4]

26 minutes ago, 7478i said:

Unless you fly these aircraft in real life, you don't have the qualifications to compare these aircraft to real life. 

FWIW some real world ga pilots have commented on the ga aircraft and were praising the flight dynamics. 

You guys are missing the point, this is a simulated technical detail comparison and the expectations from 1.5 years of MS FS2020 Hype, this has nothing to do with anybody ever being close to the controls of the real thing.

Anybody who is used to AAA add-ons available for FSX/P3D/XPlane will be disappointed when testing their expectations against default jetliners on FS2020. The argument that they are still default aircraft, is IMHO correct.

The top tier add-ons will follow from the likes of PMDG/Aerosoft. Which is OK.

Edited August 18, 2020 by pty1973cm

[roi1862 602]

17 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

What does happen when on a straight flight you push a pedal all the way ? 

When i start a turn i would expect to push a bit the correct foot in to avoid slip/slide. here you simply dont need the ball is all the time centered. Pushing full rudder on stight flight dont do much...feel arcade 

Edited August 18, 2020 by roi1862

[Dominique_K 10,146]

Just now, roi1862 said:

When i start a turn i would expect to push a bit the correct foot in to avoid slip/slide. here you simply dont need the ball is all the time centered.

What rate of turn ? Mild, normal or pronounced ?  And what happens when you use rudder only, all the way ? Just curious. 

 

[Farlis 2,287]

2 hours ago, F1le said:

Do you have an impression that all those IFR planes their FMC/MCDUs are most likely arcade planes not real one? Most of the buttons are inOp, FMC can't even allow you make changes, it's like 10-20% of real functionality of pmdg/fslab - you can't even input a road only points, I think for all IFRers it'll take some time to really have fun. VFR is really cool, but  IFR so far not so much. 

Do you have same impression?

That was exactly what I was expecting, so I'm neither surprised nor dissappointed. From what I saw in the previews the airliners have in fact more functionalities than I expected them to have.

[robert young 2,897]

42 minutes ago, 7478i said:

Unless you fly these aircraft in real life, you don't have the qualifications to compare these aircraft to real life. 

FWIW some real world ga pilots have commented on the ga aircraft and were praising the flight dynamics. 

I see. So according to you someone with a degree in aeronautical engeering but who is not a pilot has no business on a motion simulator design team. Yet most engineers who co-design motion simulators are not pilots and have never piloted an aircraft they design a simulator for.