56 minutes ago, Bryn said:

2D is more consistent with real-life desktop aviation training devices ("All instrument displays listed above must be visible during all flight operations." and the displays "...must provide an image of the instrument that: (a) Does not appear to be out of focus or illegible. (b) Does not appear to “jump” or “step” to a distracting degree during operation. (c) Does not appear with distracting jagged lines or edges." FAA AC_61-136A).

And 2D allows users to build simple home cockpits with a few screens (as noted earlier). 

It might not be how you like to game, but it is how some like to sim. I have no doubt it will be possible to use external 2D panels at some point ( though probably not in-sim). 
 

When you get a chance try an Oculus headset with a flight simulator (FSX, DCS, XPlane, etc), you'll see why 2D panels has gone by the way of the DODO Bird...  Also real flight training has your head out the cockpit not looking down at instruments.  Even Level-D simulators train pilots to look outside the cockpit.  A 3D headset gives you the whole cockpit feeling in a way that wasn't possible before hence no more need for a multiple monitor 2D panel setup.

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by Dillon

My believe is 2D cockpits are about a thing of the past.  Now popups are still nice for cockpit builders. Its an ancient argument.

 

2 hours ago, FlyingInACessna said:

2D cockpits are gross and fake hahah

when I got FSX and saw the 2D panel, I was shocked that it even existed considering virtual cockpits existed, and I couldn’t wrap my head around why anyone would use one. Where is the airplane? How can you feel for the ground when you don’t even know where the airplane is?

Before VC cockpits 2D was how things started.  Old timers have gotten used to them and don't want to let go.

Just now, Dillon said:

Before VC cockpits 2D was how things started.  Old timers have gotten used to them and don't want to let go.

I'm one of the "old Timers" and VC cockpits were the greatest invention. FS2004 I believe?

 

2 hours ago, pmanhart said:

I'll NEVER understand why people agree with or even encourage removing features that other people find useful, just to signal their support for a piece of software.

There are a myriad of reasons for having a 2D or forward looking cockpitless view. Just because YOU don't need it, does not mean its not useful or necessary for others.

Come on man, no one doubts the size of your love shrine to the FS2020 cult, it's okay if we could get at least one of the dozens of missing features in FS2020 that we've been using for nearly 40 years... your deity Microasobo will not be angry and punish you if you're not 100% satisfied with their product and crawl over broken glass begging and bleeding for basic features and mechanics necessary for simulating flying an aircraft.

Complete overreaction. This is nothing to do with worshipping Asobo or MSFS 2020. Many of us have simply made the point that we believe 2D views to be obsolete. I’m happy to be convinced otherwise. MSFS 2020 certainly isn’t the first sim to dispense of the 2D cockpit. 

I actually don't care 2D or VC, I just want a separate cockpit window for my second touch screen. VR is certainly great and I'm waiting for my preordered Reverb G2, but I'm not so sure that VR will render physical home cockpit completely obsolete. 

6 hours ago, SidekickUBT said:

Its a simple view for beginner. Why would they remove this view? Plus, maximize view too.

I don't think many newcomers/beginners would be happy with a 2D view given what games look like these days; in fact, I'd venture to say that for the average newcomer - those that MS is trying to attract to grow the userbase - would be turned off pretty quickly if MSFS weren't so immersive and 3D.  I do think they have a place for cockpit building, except that these days, those of us that have home cockpits of some form or another tend to use more custom made solutions, rather than relying on in-sim 2D panels. In-sim 2D panels spread across multiple monitors tends to be really hard on performance and provide a sub-optimal solution. The one recent exception to this is the Majestic Q400 in P3D - well, once they finally release the training edition...

 

2 hours ago, pmanhart said:

I'll NEVER understand why people agree with or even encourage removing features that other people find useful, just to signal their support for a piece of software.

There are a myriad of reasons for having a 2D or forward looking cockpitless view. Just because YOU don't need it, does not mean its not useful or necessary for others.

Come on man, no one doubts the size of your love shrine to the FS2020 cult, it's okay if we could get at least one of the dozens of missing features in FS2020 that we've been using for nearly 40 years... your deity Microasobo will not be angry and punish you if you're not 100% satisfied with their product and crawl over broken glass begging and bleeding for basic features and mechanics necessary for simulating flying an aircraft.

I hear you, but remember, this is a totally new graphics engine - so nothing was removed. It simply wasn't built, probably because Asobo believed that of all the things on their potential to-do list, this is relatively low on the list. But if you and others feel strongly about it, log a ticket in zendesk and provide them feedback on the MSFS forums. Maybe it'll get added.

You CAN have a forward looking cockpitless view. Just setup a custom camera 5' in front of the default view. While you're at it, you can undock the instruments you care about and put them there also. For those that really want this, it is possible to do with a little working around.

I don't think anyone is 100% satisfied quite yet, but I also don't think most people would put the lack of 2D cockpits on top of their list for Asobo.

I don't follow what you're saying about a love shrine and deity.

2D? Please, just don't. Reinstall FS 2004 and you can knock yourself out with 2D Panels til the cows come home. 

17 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

2D? Please, just don't. Reinstall FS 2004 and you can knock yourself out with 2D Panels til the cows come home. 

Sure why not. Many looked better then the VC’s of today. Nothing but lifeless texture creations. 
I’ll take a nice photo made 2D any day of the week. Even on Sunday. 

Guys... let's be real here.

I like FS2020. 

I like "Virtual Cockpits" that were introduced with FS2004, nothing felt better than sitting behind the simple panel of the Sopwith Camel and chugging along at 60kt.

HOWEVER

You're assumption that nobody should ever need an option for a 2D cockpit is pompous and self-righteous beyond belief.

The proselytizing on this forum, wherein one must accept it, move on, or like it without complaint or question has got to stop.

This isn't Reddit or ResetEra, where your opinion is decided for you by the majority and all heretics to the Word are bullied into submission or exile. This is AVSIM, a place for people to discuss flight simulation.

If some guy asks a question, he shouldn't expect to be berated and face a Soviet style shaming session because he does things the old way or a different way than you.

Quit the bullsnot. How about, instead of belittling those who don't play or think like you, just don't respond and go find another thread to group-flagellate in.

3 hours ago, pmanhart said:

I'll NEVER understand why people agree with or even encourage removing features that other people find useful, just to signal their support for a piece of software.

There are a myriad of reasons for having a 2D or forward looking cockpitless view. Just because YOU don't need it, does not mean its not useful or necessary for others.

Come on man, no one doubts the size of your love shrine to the FS2020 cult, it's okay if we could get at least one of the dozens of missing features in FS2020 that we've been using for nearly 40 years... your deity Microasobo will not be angry and punish you if you're not 100% satisfied with their product and crawl over broken glass begging and bleeding for basic features and mechanics necessary for simulating flying an aircraft.

The answer is very simple, all those whining about a 2D cockpit, stick with FSX or P3D. Now that wasn't hard, was it? Excuse me, I have to go and tend to my MSFS shrine.

2D pop out can be really nice to have and you can have them in MSFS but once dragged to another screen murder FPS. 
I hope they can sort it out. 

2 hours ago, Dillon said:

 A 3D headset gives you the whole cockpit feeling in a way that wasn't possible before hence no more need for a multiple monitor 2D panel setup.

Of course you can't drink your tea or scribble down the ATIS 😞

7 hours ago, Dillon said:

 Also real flight training has your head out the cockpit not looking down at instruments. 

Most of my real IFR rating was under a hood, supported by desktop trainers. With 2d panels.  

5 hours ago, Nyxx said:

2D pop out can be really nice to have and you can have them in MSFS  

That’s encouraging news! Hopefully, the performance issues are resolved. 

9 hours ago, pmanhart said:

Guys... let's be real here.

I like FS2020. 

I like "Virtual Cockpits" that were introduced with FS2004, nothing felt better than sitting behind the simple panel of the Sopwith Camel and chugging along at 60kt.

HOWEVER

You're assumption that nobody should ever need an option for a 2D cockpit is pompous and self-righteous beyond belief.

The proselytizing on this forum, wherein one must accept it, move on, or like it without complaint or question has got to stop.

This isn't Reddit or ResetEra, where your opinion is decided for you by the majority and all heretics to the Word are bullied into submission or exile. This is AVSIM, a place for people to discuss flight simulation.

If some guy asks a question, he shouldn't expect to be berated and face a Soviet style shaming session because he does things the old way or a different way than you.

Quit the bullsnot. How about, instead of belittling those who don't play or think like you, just don't respond and go find another thread to group-flagellate in.

I agree but Microsoft reads these forums and just like the tree size change presented in another thread (in some many areas not needed) this could change could be added and not needed for everyone.   We already have enough problems with sim crashes and performance issues.  2D panels added another layer of resources to models built in FSX and before.  If we could streamline this it makes add-ons and the sim in general capitalize on modern gains.  All I'm saying for those that still prefer 2D and 3 or 4 multi-monitor setups to try an alternative. Virtual Headsets changed my perspective of where things could go. Again give it a try before you shoot it down, it may work better for you than 2D panels.

That being said I hate the cancel culture (which needs to be defeated in an otherwise so called free society) that's out here today and your totally correct we need to not have that here.  Sometimes words in a forum can't display the subtle humor I was having with this.

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by Dillon