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Andreas Stangenes

Navigraph for MSF beta has begun

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1 minute ago, Mace said:

Would this increase in load times be a permanent feature, or is it a one-time thing?

I assume it's permanent because more data = more time to load, but I don't know what this sim does with its navdata.  It might put it in a database somewhere, that is accessed much more quickly.

So far, as long as the Navigraph data is loaded, the time is increased.

Vic


 

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4 hours ago, vgbaron said:

So far, as long as the Navigraph data is loaded, the time is increased.

Vic

MSFS is really no different than FSX and P3d5 in this regard. When the scenery library is modified, MSFS creates a new scenery index, which is in essence a database which the sim uses to keep track of its installed scenery.

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19 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

but once quality 3rd party aircraft are released, Navigraph will be a necessity. It seems evident to me that we are headed down the same road with MSFS as we were with FSX.

Either your statement is true and MS and Navblue are lying but both can't be right. Saying that Navigraph will be a necessity is kind of a stretch after reading the following.

"NAVBLUE will provide real-world aeronautical data to Microsoft.... Authentic worldwide navigation data, will be delivered in ARINC424 format, which is the international standard format for aircraft navigation. Realistic and accurate aerodrome and terminal procedure charts used by professional pilots across the globe will be supplied to allow virtual pilots to access genuine information about aviation procedures in the airports and airspace."

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Will provide? Initial release or updated on a time scale?

Edited by Adrian123

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35 minutes ago, FPStewy said:

Either your statement is true and MS and Navblue are lying but both can't be right. Saying that Navigraph will be a necessity is kind of a stretch after reading the following.

"NAVBLUE will provide real-world aeronautical data to Microsoft.... Authentic worldwide navigation data, will be delivered in ARINC424 format, which is the international standard format for aircraft navigation. Realistic and accurate aerodrome and terminal procedure charts used by professional pilots across the globe will be supplied to allow virtual pilots to access genuine information about aviation procedures in the airports and airspace."

I am not sure that I would call what NavBlue has provided realistic or accurate.,

It seems to me the rush of Navigraph is in response to Microsoft realising it is failing in this regard.  I think a few contract clauses are being very closely looked at right now.


Harry Woodrow

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20 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

It may be useless now because the default aircraft have features missing, but once quality 3rd party aircraft are released, Navigraph will be a necessity. Since the beta is free to existing Navigraph users, the point of it being released is to shore up the weak default navigation database in MSFS before the 3rd party aircraft are released.

Not quite sure that's what's going on here. MSFS does include a navigation database, presumably supplied by Navblue. Default aircraft (and mods of them) seem to be reading that OK. The reason FSX and P3D had external, per-addon navdata updates was because 3PDs all went down their own unique paths of building FMSes and interpreting navdata in a way that was completely external to the sim engine. Those 3PDs built relationships with Navigraph and Navdatapro for updated data that mirrored the real world.

I think the announcements about Navblue and ARINC 424 compatible data for MSFS 2020 was intended to end that scenario and bake navdata into the core sim so 3PDs wouldn't need to spend extra maintaining relationships with Navigraph or building their own FMSes from scratch: if you can write software that's compatible with the published and well-known ARINC 424 spec, that makes MSFS2020 a simpler prospect to develop for. However, the rushed release of the game means we don't have any of the promised navdata functionality or SDK documentation. If a 3PD releases a complex addon that uses the age-old FSX/P3D external navdata/FMS method - an addon for an addon - that'll be a serious blow to Navblue's relevance in MSFS2020. And a lifesaver for Navigraph.

If I was Asobo I'd be doing my nut about this. Why pay £££££ to Navblue for a multi-million seat licence when your dedicated customers and commercial ecosystem choose to ignore that and do their own thing outside your carefully constructed sandbox?

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14 minutes ago, lambourne said:

Not quite sure that's what's going on here. MSFS does include a navigation database, presumably supplied by Navblue. Default aircraft (and mods of them) seem to be reading that OK. The reason FSX and P3D had external, per-addon navdata updates was because 3PDs all went down their own unique paths of building FMSes and interpreting navdata in a way that was completely external to the sim engine. Those 3PDs built relationships with Navigraph and Navdatapro for updated data that mirrored the real world.

I think the announcements about Navblue and ARINC 424 compatible data for MSFS 2020 was intended to end that scenario and bake navdata into the core sim so 3PDs wouldn't need to spend extra maintaining relationships with Navigraph or building their own FMSes from scratch: if you can write software that's compatible with the published and well-known ARINC 424 spec, that makes MSFS2020 a simpler prospect to develop for. However, the rushed release of the game means we don't have any of the promised navdata functionality or SDK documentation. If a 3PD releases a complex addon that uses the age-old FSX/P3D external navdata/FMS method - an addon for an addon - that'll be a serious blow to Navblue's relevance in MSFS2020. And a lifesaver for Navigraph.

If I was Asobo I'd be doing my nut about this. Why pay £££££ to Navblue for a multi-million seat licence when your dedicated customers and commercial ecosystem choose to ignore that and do their own thing outside your carefully constructed sandbox?

Have a look at the aproaches using  NavBlue in the sim (try EGLC for a start) snd compare then with the ones you can get from the aviation authority or the charts in Navigraph,  The Navigrigraph ones are spot on the Sim ones way off.   15 miles less on an approach does change the descent gradient  on a STAR considerably let alone putting you in the way of other flight routes,


Harry Woodrow

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I'm afraid, if this current Navblue is the Navblue we are getting, it's full of database errors. It's not even correct to the dates it purports to be. Either it's updated properly, or Navigraph must solve this.

Lee


Lee Holdridge

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16 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

I hope to see some of it corrected in the next patch, or shortly thereafter. 

We all paid premium for a product that isn't delivering on what they advertised it would be. I still cannot comprehend how a 7 year old FSX system can get it right and the next gen premium get it wrong. In comes Navigraph with promises to fix it for a price, we all have patience but for some that patience is wearing thin.

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2 hours ago, FPStewy said:

Either your statement is true and MS and Navblue are lying but both can't be right. Saying that Navigraph will be a necessity is kind of a stretch after reading the following.

"NAVBLUE will provide real-world aeronautical data to Microsoft.... Authentic worldwide navigation data, will be delivered in ARINC424 format, which is the international standard format for aircraft navigation. Realistic and accurate aerodrome and terminal procedure charts used by professional pilots across the globe will be supplied to allow virtual pilots to access genuine information about aviation procedures in the airports and airspace."

Well they didn't say it would be in at launch, that it will just be provided at some point.

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Just now, Tuskin38 said:

Well they didn't say it would be in at launch, that it will just be provided at some point.

Or that it would be updated periodically and free. At least not in that quote.

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Call me naive but I hope that's just another thing that gets addressed by Asobo / Navblue.


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3 minutes ago, NovemberUniform said:

Call me naive but I hope that's just another thing that gets addressed by Asobo / Navblue.

I hope they address it soon, I have nothing against Navigraph it's a good service if you want to pay for it. What we don't want in this sim is to have Navigraph become a necessity.


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Navigraph is working on this. I didn't expect them to get it right immediately. In fact, I didn't expect to need Navigraph anymore.

Why are the charts? Where are the speed and altitude restrictions?

As it stands, IFR isn't very enjoyable with the sim right now. I love cloud charts from Navigraph, and I love how everything matches up to what I'm seeing in the sim. Anything less than that is a step backwards. 

I don't expect to ever see these functions delivered with MSFS. If there really was a partnership, we should have seen something more with the RC. Instead, we got a static AIRAC cycle that was already outdated at launch. It is now outdated by 2 months.

Also, I can't understand how anyone could test IFR capabilities without up to date nav data. This, IMO, is a key feature that should have been part of the RC AND included with the alpha and beta versions.

Edited by duckbilled

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