Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
abrams_tank

Community A320 mod team's plea for support

Recommended Posts

For those of us who cant be bothered logging into the official forum, what's the diatribe posted over there?


i7-10700K; RTX 2070 Super; 16GB; P3Dv4.5HF3.

Aerosoft A32x and Majestic Q400 driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, lambourne said:

For those of us who cant be bothered logging into the official forum, what's the diatribe posted over there?

Here you go:

"I am an active dev on the FlyByWire A32NX project, and our team has contacted Asobo multiple times. We have NEVER gotten a SINGLE response. We asked if we could modify the model of the A320, we NEVER got an answer. Not even a simple “no, the licensing doesn’t allow it”. We would have started developing our own model THE SECOND we would have gotten that email.

Ever since this simulator has released, the development experience has been pitiful. The bundled tools are almost useless. Live-reload for aircraft barely works. Live-reload for JavaScript barely works without modifying the game code. Oh, and guess what, now it doesn’t work at all because they decided to enable Coherent DiskCache in the latest update, rendering part of the development tools we have started building completely useless. And of course, there is absolutely no way to disable it.

The Microsoft Store edition prevents you from accessing base aircraft files. Those are plain JavaScript and XML files that are easily edited in the Steam edition, that are almost necessary to access in order to understand how the spaghetti code that makes up the instrument UIs.

We have been hearing for weeks that communication will improve, yet as stated in point 1 we have gotten absolutely no information regarding support of freeware and open-source mods like ours. Even in the official Q&A they said “we haven’t thought about it” COME ON. Freeware and open-source mods are an ESSENTIAL parts of all modding communities. The documentation for the SDK is a joke, with some pages containing “TODO” and that’s it. Some parts are literally copy-pasted form Prepar3D / ESP docs.

If you’re not going to make an extremely realistic A320neo, then that’s fine. Nobody expected a study-level default plane. But please, let us improve it if we want it. it is utterly unacceptable that something as basic as starting an engine was broken in a base aircraft file that we cannot even overwrite, and that MS Store users can’t even read. Where was all the “testing” you mentioned in the last 2 dev updates?

I’ll happily accept everything you guys do to help out developers. But please, show us you will be on our side."

This wasn't actually posted on there, it was linked to from Reddit as far as I'm aware, but the end effect is kind of the same. Frankly, it comes across as a whiny, entitled, and rude, and so I'm not surprised that someone with that attitude has (allegedly) been ignored, because I'd ignore someone too if they spoke to me like that, right after I'd smacked em in the chops. 🤣

 

Edited by Chock
  • Like 5

Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Angry young man who thinks Asobo owes him everything, then. Thanks for posting.

It's one thing to work with commercial developers whose products add value to MS through the FS2020 marketplace. Quite another to expect Asobo to bend over backwards for freeware modders whose activities arguably depress marketplace demand for the inevitable paid addon.

  • Upvote 1

i7-10700K; RTX 2070 Super; 16GB; P3Dv4.5HF3.

Aerosoft A32x and Majestic Q400 driver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, as I posted in the official forum,  Ford is an automotive developer, my buddy who drops Corvette engines into smaller cars, and installs body kits, is not an automotive developer.  The post mentioned “working on our own model”.  that’s what they need to do.  I don’t think Asobo cares if they mod the default, but they aren’t going to give them any ownership of it, or hold off on doing their own development to suit some modders.  I’m assuming freeware devs can use default instruments and gauges in their own planes as it has been in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, lambourne said:

It's one thing to work with commercial developers whose products add value to MS through the FS2020 marketplace. Quite another to expect Asobo to bend over backwards for freeware modders whose activities arguably depress marketplace demand for the inevitable paid addon.

Yeah, pretty much.   This was my response there, verbatim:

It’s really very simple. I know actual, high-end, commercial add-on developers – the ones who are making things which many people will buy in the Marketplace – who are working with Asobo to flesh out the SDK and the capabilities for third-party development of the sort of addons we expect. The needs of the big guys aren’t being met right now, but they are actively being worked on.

The company does not have infinite resources. Who is going to get priority: the big commercial developers who will rake in the bucks for everyone, or people – even popular and talented teams – who are, effectively, just enhancing the functionality of things that are already in the sim? If your answer is not “big commercial developers”, I seriously wonder about you.

Look, I get it. I’ve been working with a number of other folks to enhance the stuff in the stock game, too. And yes, the public SDK is a mess, the documentation is terrible, what bit of the code we can see and work with is a bit of a nightmare, and you spend half your development time feeling like you’re trying to build a table with no hammer and a dull saw. And it’s frustrating.

But, honestly, as a consumer? With what we have now, I’d rather Asobo spend time working with the big names to produce the kind of things that I am going to buy because they do things I can’t or won’t have time to; not dedicating themselves to answering the queries of people like me who are hacking on things that weren’t really meant to be open to being hacked on in the first place.

You’re implementing free enhancements on a local scale to a sim that is still in active development and for which the current focus is on large-scale bug fixes and providing a stable platform for commercial development. It was never going to be an easy ride, but this is where a person puts on their big-boy pants, realizes where they are in the scheme of things, and works with what they have until there is time for their own personal interests to get more attention.

It’s fine to ask for help. And I really respect what the FBW team are trying to do and the effort they’re putting into it. But honestly, this kind of public demonstration of pique feels out of scale, out of place, and really isn’t a great look.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 3

Rob Jones - Working Title Developer - Professional Nerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to see the responses are overall inline with each other here.. I know it's cool to go against "corporate America" but when your demands and expectations are wrong.. They're wrong.. There are a lot of other things to write long winded diatribes about but this whole community mod rant about the A320 is just shallow, empty whining plain and simple. 


ASUS ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING / i9-9900k @ 4.7 all cores w/ NOCTUA NH-D15S / 2080ti / 32GB G.Skill 3200 RIPJAWS / 1TB Evo SSD / 500GB Evo SSD /  2x 3TB HDD / CORSAIR CRYSTAL 570X

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's almost certainly the case that neither Asobo, nor Microsoft is in a position to give an official nod to anyone to screw around with an A320 model. The simple fact is that the A320 NEO is a current production aeroplane which is ultimately owned by Airbus SE.

Microsoft - and by inheritance as their contracted developer - Asobo, will themselves be under what I'm sure is a strict agreement over what they can and cannot do with the likeness of the A320; I think we can be fairly sure that nowhere in the list of things they are allowed to do in that agreement, will be the approval to give someone who is under no such contracted restrictions at all, and whom they frankly don't know from Adam, free reign to do whatever they like with a model of an Airbus with an Airbus logo on the side of it.

That's just the reality of it. Now I guess it is not absolutely inconceivable at all that such could be granted if all the permission boxes were ticked by MS, Asobo, Airbus, IAE, P&W, Rolls Royce, CFM, GE, Collins etc, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to occur. However, from a diplomatic standpoint, if I did want to make that happen, I would not start off my campaign to try and see it transpire, with a whiny diatribe which slags off the people I'm hoping to persuade. I don't think you need to be Henry Kissinger to work that one out.

Edited by Chock
  • Like 5
  • Upvote 1

Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chock said:

do whatever they like with a model of an Airbus with an Airbus logo on the side of it

You mean like turning it into a Boeing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And also by engaging at all with said mod team, even to say “you can’t do that” puts Asobo  in the position of not “doing enough” to prevent it, if airbus decides they don’t like it.  Probably any official Asobo involvement at all would be bad for the status of the mod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regard to the reddit post, although I am 100% supporting this project, I kind find the reddit thread pretty dramatic. Sure the sim has many many bugs, but when did it release? Barely a month! We are talking here about a new sim (sort of based on FSX) but still, is not from v4 to v5 upgrade or from 11.42 to 11.50 upgrade. The sim obviously needs time, I think it may need like a year to stabilize. Remember FSX when it was released? Many were bashing it in Avsim calling it a failure. I remember (please correct me if I am wrong) it took PMDG like at least a year (or maybe even more) to bring 737 to fsx. So yeah, patience is the key.

  • Like 1

i9-9900K OC 5.0ghz, 32GB DDR4 3600 RAM, RTX 2080Super 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, ShawnG said:

I too love the a320 mod, and the work that those guys are doing on it, but what specifically are they asking for?

I think if ASOBO would coordinate their work with the mod team it would greatly benefit everyone.

If they decide to offer them more support, that's a plus.

  • Like 3

Want to improve control sensitivity in MSFS?
The old thread got removed - please re-vote this thread:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/sensitivity-control-surface-authority/310521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, the OP has been big enough to take heed of the (at times hostile) feedback they received and posted a clarification and apology:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MicrosoftFlightSim/comments/iutime/clarification_regarding_recent_rantings_abotu_the/

 

 

Edited by kaosfere
changed inline to a link
  • Like 2

Rob Jones - Working Title Developer - Professional Nerd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, kaosfere said:

FWIW, the OP has been big enough to take heed of the (at times hostile) feedback they received and posted a clarification and apology:

I've seen a lot guys complain about the new sim. Even respected devs. But when a guy who is actively contributing to the new sim gets a little angry, I can fully understand it. Besides, he kept relatively calm.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Want to improve control sensitivity in MSFS?
The old thread got removed - please re-vote this thread:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/sensitivity-control-surface-authority/310521

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to side with Asobo on this one. They have enough things that are broken in the sim, that they don't need someone messing around with the only commercial jetliner that somewhat works and then have more people complaining about both the Asobo A320neo and the modded version.  Maybe 6 months from now Asobo will have a different view of the situation.

I do think it's funny that Asobo stooped to blaming the lawyers, though. Seriously, so they licensed the A320 from Airbus. Does Asobo really think that Airbus is going to sue Asobo because some freeware developer tinkered with the default settings for the simulated aircraft? What about all those "illegal" freeware liveries? Seriously, if anyone should sue anyone else, Asobo should sue Airbus for its pitiful NavBLUE navigation database. Do Airbus aircraft rely on that same dataset?

Edited by jabloomf1230
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, ShawnG said:

Oh I’m certain that after that diatribe, Asobo will certainly bend over backwards to help that guy...

Exactly. If I were Asobo, I'd be like: nah, buddy, we gonna lock up ALL the files now.

Stupid and childish post, reminds me of the old saying: it's better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, then to open and confirm it.

And the "apology" post on reddit isn't helping much.....

Edited by Ricardo41

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    34%
    $8,560.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...