1 hour ago, F737NG said:

Agree with all of that. Just missing the most important feature of a flight sim - the feeling of how an aircraft flies!

It's all just too twitchy in MSFS at the moment. I've turned the sensitivities right down, but all aircraft overreact to any control inputs. There's also the turbulence, which I feel is overdone and the lack of inertia acting on aircraft.
In an attempt to get away from the 'flying on rails' sensation, I feel that Asobo have gone a little too far in the opposite direction.

When the flight modelling is amended, I think you'll rightly be able to call MSFS ahead of other sims on all features.

Try Rob Young's Bonanza mod - it's an incredible representation of flight...well as good as it can be while we sit in out chairs behind a monitor.

The twitchiness can be easily adjusted with some slight curves on your peripherals.

49 minutes ago, d.tsakiris said:

Several, if not most developers offer those functions in their own tools. Besides, freeware still has to be installed and updated manually, if I recall correctly.

So installing Orbx Direct, FlyTampa's, FSDT and XYZ updater plus downloading the other add-ons from SimMarket is a more cohesive approach? You must have very few add-ons then.

And Asobo is on the record stating that they want to have more freeware on the Marketplace (Aerosoft's wonderful Padebord airport is already there, for instance).

Quote

I don't know. I'm afraid the availability on Steam attracts the more "casual" simmer, who's interests don't match my own.

That kind of elitism is not helpful to the ecossystem. Mass appeal is precisely why MSFS is more attractive to developers. 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by GCBraun

4 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

So installing Orbx Direct, FlyTampa's, FSDT and XYZ updater plus downloading the other add-ons from SimMarket is a more cohesive approach? You must have very few add-ons then.

Not what I said. MSFS' approach may be more cohesive, but, if so, only slightly in my opinion. Others may think differently.

And my scenery layer count is approaching 900, so...yeah.

6 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Aerosoft's wonderful Padebord airport is already there, for instance

Not the type of freeware I was talking about.

7 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

That kind of elitism is not helpful to the ecossystem. Mass appeal is precisely why MSFS is more attractive to developers

Has nothing to do with "elitism". My priorities are different, and I'm not implying they are in any way "better". Anyway, the question is, what kind of add-ons will those developers develop? Again, not judging in any way...

So, the bottom line, I think, is: We will have to see how things are in 6 months or a year, or maybe more.

20 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

That kind of elitism is not helpful to the ecossystem. Mass appeal is precisely why MSFS is more attractive to developers. 

We need some elitism when it comes to simulation.
Mass appeal only would lead to a sim that has GTA V -style flight dynamics or limited world / maps like the Call of Duty flying missions.

X-Plane was founded because of elitism. It was striving for more realistic physics replication that gave us that sim.

 

1 hour ago, d.tsakiris said:

I don't know. I'm afraid the availability on Steam attracts the more "casual" simmer, who's interests don't match my own.

Everything needs balance.
Increased mass appeal is required to get even more projects underway, new ways of thinking, new methods of design / coding and spread over many multiples more units sold.

We had become too niche in our hobby - product prices, length of time for development and total number of active flight simmers showed that.
MSFS is the shot in the arm that was needed. At some point next year / early 2022, we'll see the quality payware airliners turn-up. We'll (hopefully) get what we want, which is realistic commercial jets in a world that is far more advanced than we ever imagined even 18 months ago.

just saw a very interesting graphic posted by somebody else in the FSLabs discord server.  Shows MSFS usage.  While it peaked at 61k active users at one time.  It's now averaging just 5000 users at a time.  Guess gamers are tired of it already.  

1 minute ago, micstatic said:

just saw a very interesting graphic posted by somebody else in the FSLabs discord server.  Shows MSFS usage.  While it peaked at 61k active users at one time.  It's now averaging just 5000 users at a time.  Guess gamers are tired of it already.  

In the beginning lots of people want to try it out ( $1 for a month ) . After that many uses go on to try another new game and a serious group of users are staying.

 

 

7 minutes ago, micstatic said:

just saw a very interesting graphic posted by somebody else in the FSLabs discord server.  Shows MSFS usage.  While it peaked at 61k active users at one time.  It's now averaging just 5000 users at a time.  Guess gamers are tired of it already.  

 

3 minutes ago, GSalden said:

In the beginning lots of people want to try it out ( $1 for a month ) . After that many uses go on to try another new game and a serious group of users are staying.

I think it's worth bearing in mind is that MSFS is not complete (it's a 'pretty version of Google Earth' right now), it's not on console and there aren't enough missions (gameplay is too 'unfocused' for gamers).
Fix these three things and I reckon the long-term average active users will remain well above 61,000 for about a year.

19 minutes ago, micstatic said:

just saw a very interesting graphic posted by somebody else in the FSLabs discord server.  Shows MSFS usage.  While it peaked at 61k active users at one time.  It's now averaging just 5000 users at a time.  Guess gamers are tired of it already.  

It’s great to have a least some statistics, even though I would never make into them because I (and many others, including ALL game pass subscribers) do not use Steam for MSFS. 

What would be your guess for concurrent P3D users? Based on XP11’s numbers, I would say 500-1000 at peak times. 

Today I ran P3d5 for the first time in over a month. It was a pleasure to not have to worry about what was going to break and ruin my flight. With trueSky and 3D trees it's passable for most flights.

44 minutes ago, micstatic said:

Guess gamers are tired of it already.  

This was quite predictable as gamers get tired of every game. MSFS has less going for it because it has no bosses to kill, working weapons or catastrophic carnage. I don't think that having all those bugs has helped either.

MS better count on a percentage of those remaining users graduating to the serious flightsimming community. One cannot live on screenshots alone. Maybe VR will save the day.

I just heard from a 3rd party developer who was working on a beta  add-on for MSFS. He told me the same thing that HiFi has written about Active Sky for MSFS. The SDK is just not complete enough to continue work on his product, which presently works in other flightsims. This trend will also reduce the number of users if it continues unabated.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by jabloomf1230

39 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

It’s great to have a least some statistics, even though I would never make into them because I (and many others, including ALL game pass subscribers) do not use Steam for MSFS. 

What would be your guess for concurrent P3D users? Based on XP11’s numbers, I would say 500-1000 at peak times. 

I have no idea.  My guess would be 3000.  All versions of P3D factored in.  The Active users in the maddog, fslabs, pmdg, majestic, tfdi forums alone would suggest higher than your estimate.  But without question MSFS has and should have more users.  You may think I'm saying I hate MSFS and wish for it's early death.  I don't.  But there is a reason that a good chunk of users have come back to P3D.  Or never left.  There is also a reason when some of the biggest flight sim payware makers are giving huge delays for their products to be ready.  It's hard for me to say when MSFS stumbled and fell.  But I suspect it was at the point when it seemed to get rushed and pushed thru the shortest beta known to man kind.  I think our friends at Asobo were forced by microsoft to deliver their baby too early.  It's clear.  Now that the buzz is wearing off (and users are decreasing) it's pretty hard to not see that. 

For those that care, RSR over at PMDG posted an update yesterday on their products status. In that he stated that the NG3 is now 12+ months away at the earliest due to the state of the SDK. I know prior he was optimistic that it could come earlier but that appears to be no longer the case. So no earlier than mid October 2021. In fact, it seems to me the 12+ is a good PC way of saying 2022.

37 minutes ago, micstatic said:

The Active users in the maddog, fslabs, pmdg, majestic, tfdi forums alone would suggest higher than your estimate

Plus, consider the large number of registered users on the official P3d forums. MSFS users are probably timesharing with other PC games that they play. XP and P3d probably have user bases with fewer alternate gaming distractions. For example, I do game a bit on my PS4 but haven't played a PC game probably since the Elder Scrolls series.

3 minutes ago, B777ER said:

In fact, it seems to me the 12+ is a good PC way of saying 2022.

Or maybe never. This may be just brinkmanship on his part as he may be trying to force Asobo to clean up the SDK.

1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

MSFS users are probably timesharing with other PC games that they play

Or timesharing with Xp11 and P3D. 😉