X-Plane 11: Where Have I Been All Your Life?

[Janov 2,383]

57 minutes ago, jbdbow1970 said:

I smell some BS in this post, not going to elaborate but its more a feel me good about myself post.

And I feel a lot of insecurity, or even a decent inferiority complex, about the simulator of your choice in your reply 😁.

[GCBraun 2,392]

On 10/16/2020 at 3:02 PM, Janov said:

There are three types of airports in X-Plane:

1.) Default X-Plane airports, 

2.) Payware or comparable

3.) Freeware custom airports. 

MSFS currently only offers option 1 and 2

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of freeware MSFS airports available and the installation process is much, much simpler than XP11's. Moreover, Asobo has clearly stated that their plan is to have more and more freeware content in the integrated marketplace, which will reduce the effort even more.

The XP franchise will live on as a niche sim, but, when it comes to quality third party content, I have no doubts which sim will have the edge in a couple years from now.

[Janov 2,383]

Just now, GCBraun said:

and the installation process is much, much simpler than XP11's.

It is more simple than just dragging/unzipping the scenery package into the Custom Scenery folder? Wow!

And yes, Asobo has stated many things clearly 😂😆🤣.

I don´t doubt for a minute that MSFS will have more users (and hence more third-party devs flocking to it) than X-Plane. Just as Candy Crush Saga has more users than MSFS.

Flying and enjoying a realistic simulator is not for the masses 😉 - it needs a certain combination of mental attributes that go beyond being able to spot your house from above or navigating your instrument panel with the help of giant floating tooltips...

Cheers, Jan

 

[JBDB-MD80 1,473]

44 minutes ago, Janov said:

And I feel a lot of insecurity, or even a decent inferiority complex, about the simulator of your choice in your reply 😁.

I still fly FSX so I am pretty secure right now.  What you said can be said here and the P3D forum about the new kid on the block also. IC. yep OP probably never loaded up the new sim just a pep talk.

Edited October 20, 2020 by jbdbow1970

[GoranM 3,764]

I've heard this more times than I care to remember.  

"[insert company name here] will have this some time in the future."

"[insert company name here] have promised they will add this in the next 1-5 years."

 

There's a saying I live by.  "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."  

To give you the benefit of the doubt, @GCBraun, let's say Asobo deliver, on all fronts.  Overhauled flight model.  Updated SDK.  Fewer CTD's.  etc...  Then what?  Will that shift the polar ice caps?  Will that cause global earthquakes?  Will that bankrupt Laminar Research?  

Of course not.  If they deliver on their promises, that's great for people like YOU as a customer/user/flight simmer, and great for the community because it introduces more competition.  Why are you trying to be one of those who turn this into an X-Plane vs MSFS thread...AGAIN??  Why does it bother you that X-Plane exists?  Why are you trying to negate X-Plane by assuming it's far easier to install scenery in MSFS than it is in X-Plane?  (Which, as Jan said, it isn't.)

Enjoy what you have.  No matter what any of the anti-X-Planers say, X-Plane isn't going anywhere.  No matter how loud you scream or how many posts you make.  On the contrary, I'm willing to wager that Laminar Research have seen what MSFS can do, and are looking to better it.  And if you think they can't, you'd be sorely mistaken.  

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by GoranM

[mjrhealth 820]

2 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

I smell some BS in this post, not going to elaborate but its more a feel me good about myself post.

Lets se what happens when the investment out strips the returns like the last version

[GCBraun 2,392]

42 minutes ago, GoranM said:

I've heard this more times than I care to remember.  

"[insert company name here] will have this some time in the future."

"[insert company name here] have promised they will add this in the next 1-5 years."

 

There's a saying I live by.  "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."  

To give you the benefit of the doubt, @GCBraun, let's say Asobo deliver, on all fronts.  Overhauled flight model.  Updated SDK.  Fewer CTD's.  etc...  Then what?  Will that shift the polar ice caps?  Will that cause global earthquakes?  Will that bankrupt Laminar Research?  

Of course not.  If they deliver on their promises, that's great for people like YOU as a customer/user/flight simmer, and great for the community because it introduces more competition.  Why are you trying to be one of those who turn this into an X-Plane vs MSFS thread...AGAIN??  Why does it bother you that X-Plane exists?  Why are you trying to negate X-Plane by assuming it's far easier to install scenery in MSFS than it is in X-Plane?  (Which, as Jan said, it isn't.)

Enjoy what you have.  No matter what any of the anti-X-Planers say, X-Plane isn't going anywhere.  No matter how loud you scream or how many posts you make.  On the contrary, I'm willing to wager that Laminar Research have seen what MSFS can do, and are looking to better it.  And if you think they can't, you'd be sorely mistaken.  

 

I jumped into what Janov said because it is simply not true that there is no freeware scenery available for MSFS. If you fail to see why a direct install via a built-in marketplace might be easier to the user than logging into XP.org and downloading not only the scenery pack that you want, but dozens of different libraries, than I am not sure what I can say to convince you. 

Please keep in mind that I have invested a significant amount of money in the XP ecosystem, including in the add-ons either developed or supported by you and Janov. Therefore, I am not at all bothered by XP’s existence. Quite the opposite actually, I do hope that it improves and prove to be a viable competitor to MSFS. 

Once MSFS was released, nevertheless, it was clear to me that it was so far ahead in many areas (and behind in others), that I could not justify supporting four different simulators. 

If one day XP offers what I am currently getting in MSFS without the need to have 50Tb of Orthophotos, 75 different scenery libraries and 1050 manually downloaded and updated airports, I will be happy to return. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by GCBraun

[JBDB-MD80 1,473]

14 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Lets se what happens when the investment out strips the returns like the last version

Lets see what happens! REALLY the new sim is 2 months old lets talk about this in a year or two like every other sim ever made to get where it needs to be. SMDH. Hey I'm like some others on the fence I don't have the sim yet. but to P ( don't use this word here) SS on it this early in stage is like Not going to say it. As far a Investment for MS and this sim its a drop in a bucket for them.

[jcomm 5,935]

For me it all depends on how both platforms will evolve over the next years, BUT, for sure, feature wise and if you're interested more in the aerodynamics modelling than in the visuals, IMHO X-Plane is still quite ahead of MFS.

Of couse there's a LOT of potential in MFS, but not in the area of flight and systems modelling, unless ASOBO can open it's SDK properly to 3pds and hand them the resources to do their magic.

Some new interesting stuff, but also much inherited from previous versions, mostly with their problems / bugs / limitations.

Maybe the dynamism of ASOBO - it has already proven so - can make things change rapidly.

In the XP World it's, OTOH, always pretty much the same - a core dev that doesn't appear to be stressed with competition, but rather, focused in his objectives, which do not necessarily coincide with those of his "clients"... 

Austin is a brilliant guy, and could make XP12 shine, just by polishing some aspects of XP11, adding some more features, fix some open quirks. Let's see what he can do... 

But at times Austin does stuff that puzzles me, making it look like he doesn't really know nothing about some real aviation stuff..  I recall for instance when someone asked him to address the modelling of thermal lift in XP11, because around thermals there's sink... and he went ahead and modelled an atmosphere where apart from where there is a static ( in XP they do not move with the wind as IRL ) thermal, there was sink all around... That sink was proportional to the intensity of the thermals, so, if one sets powerful thermals to model a "bombastic" soaring day, one ends in the ground rapidly unless the density of the thermals is set to very high / unrealistic values 😕 ... OR the way XP - still - models icing, with a rate which is proportional to the wing area... so that your 744 will be an ice cube a lot faster than the c172 😕

I always wonder how many other features like this go unnoticed in X-plane's code, as ( I never get tired of mentioning it, I know... ) happened with that infamous torque bug....

I have good expectations for the announcement of features coming with XP12, but I confess I am a LOT more concerned with whatever comes for aerodynamics, systems and weather modelling stuff than graphics / scenery... ( I use MFS with only default static scenery, streaming disabled and no photogrammetry at all... ).

Edited October 20, 2020 by jcomm

[GoranM 3,764]

43 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I jumped into what Janov said because it is simply not true that there is no freeware scenery available for MSFS. If you fail to see why a direct install via a built-in marketplace might be easier to the user than logging into XP.org and downloading not only the scenery pack that you want, but dozens of different libraries, than I am not sure what I can say to convince you. 

Please keep in mind that I have invested a significant amount of money in the XP ecosystem, including in the add-ons either developed or supported by you and Janov. Therefore, I am not at all bothered by XP’s existence. Quite the opposite actually, I do hope that it improves and prove to be a viable competitor to MSFS. 

Once MSFS was released, nevertheless, it was clear to me that it was so far ahead in many areas (and behind in others), that I could not justify supporting four different simulators. 

If one day XP offers what I am currently getting in MSFS without the need to have 50Tb of Orthophotos, 75 different scenery libraries and 1050 manually downloaded and updated airports, I will be happy to return. 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion.  Your version of easier differs from others.  I don't mean to be too confronting, but I've seen countless threads like this, and I also get countless DM's through various channels telling me I'm making a big mistake by not moving to MSFS to make add ons.  Sometimes, it gets a little bit much.

[mSparks 2,086]

4 hours ago, GCBraun said:

. If you fail to see why a direct install via a built-in marketplace might be easier to the user than logging into XP.org

I heard the freeware section of that is still empty?..?

5 hours ago, GoranM said:

Then what?  Will that shift the polar ice caps?  Will that cause global earthquakes?  Will that bankrupt Laminar Research?  

Then even more people will try to mod and improve the default aircraft, like the 787... and find, unlike X-Plane .... "computer says no", and either pick themselves up a copy of X-Plane and continue a happy simming life, or go on to the next big thing that just had a 7 figure sum spent on marketing and never think about flight sim again.

5 hours ago, Janov said:

I don´t doubt for a minute that MSFS will have more users

At least for a couple more weeks until X-Plane overtakes them, As I write this MSFS Steam just hit another new all time low of 3,000 users. Another 4 or 5 weeks at current pace and there'll be less MSFS users than X-Plane users. They aren't coming over to the better sim, they are just leaving thinking flight sim is impossible.

Edited October 20, 2020 by mSparks

[Janov 2,383]

4 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I jumped into what Janov said because it is simply not true that there is no freeware scenery available for MSFS.

I wrote that there are no custom freeware airports for MSFS - and I stand to be corrected. With custom I mean custom made objects, not default objects from the Microsoft library. Again, if there ARE freeware custom airports for MSFS, then my statement was false.

I actually agree with your resentment towards the need to download/install Orthoscenery and libraries and you will not find either on my harddisk. Curiously enough I am totally happy with the default LR scenery (don´t even have the HD mesh) and the Gateway airports.

For my type of flying things don´t get interesting outside the window until I reach MDA or DH or until it is time to find a taxiway to vacate the runway (dependent on the type of approach I do) - sometimes I fly a visual approach, but again here it´s only the terrain and the runway, I couldn´t care less if the lake down there has pretty waves or not 😉

Cheers, Jan

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Janov

[GCBraun 2,392]

1 hour ago, Janov said:

I wrote that there are no custom freeware airports for MSFS - and I stand to be corrected. With custom I mean custom made objects, not default objects from the Microsoft library. Again, if there ARE freeware custom airports for MSFS, then my statement was false.

I actually agree with your resentment towards the need to download/install Orthoscenery and libraries and you will not find either on my harddisk. Curiously enough I am totally happy with the default LR scenery (don´t even have the HD mesh) and the Gateway airports.

For my type of flying things don´t get interesting outside the window until I reach MDA or DH or until it is time to find a taxiway to vacate the runway (dependent on the type of approach I do) - sometimes I fly a visual approach, but again here it´s only the terrain and the runway, I couldn´t care less if the lake down there has pretty waves or not 😉

Cheers, Jan

 

Well, I'm pretty sure there are custom made freeware airports already. Or do you think that Aerosoft's Freeware Padeborn (available in the Marketplace, by the way) does not include custom content?

 

Regarding scenery needs, well, I believe you are a pilot. For me, simulation is a hobby and not a way to maintain my flying proficiency. Therefore, having real world textures streamed to my computer was a quantum leap for my simming experience. Couple that with photogammetry, building AI in a global scale, next-gen weather generation and believable default airport scenery and you have a blockbuster product. 

Hope the others can catch up somehow.

Edited October 20, 2020 by GCBraun

[Greazer 1,320]

To explain simply, MSFS is Next Gen and X Plane is legacy sim, in the same bucket as FSX, P3d and Aerofly.

[mSparks 2,086]

1 minute ago, Greazer said:

MSFS is Next Gen

C'mon, its not even as good yet as the oldest x-plane that still runs from 2002.

The response should not be wait 20 years for Asobo to maybe catch up (in the 2 or 3 years left of the ten years of funding they were given)

It should be that the XP11 demo doesn't remotely demonstrate what XP11 is actually capable of and lend our experiences to people burnt by the hype train once again.