Sack the Saboteur - Seriously!...

[pmb 5,137]

21 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

No one is forcing anyone from using anything.  If anyone doesn't like the contents of this thread, they are frankly free to not read the thread.

Thanks, you are right here, but I am not a native speaker. I meant: "But continually to bad-mouth MSFS for those enjoying MSFS isn't something I find fair." That's what I meant.

Kind regards, Michael

[ryanbatc 12,857]

Ahhh...Zendesk.  "here, do these 10 complex things, including a reinstall of your OS, to maybe fix your problem."

At the moment I can't even enjoy what parts I was enjoying in the Sim.  It's stuck in a loading loop at Monument Valley screen.

For people who don't have these issues.... wonderful - that's probably a big reason why you think people like me are "whining." (Oops I said that word).

It's very very frustrating to not be able to use the software.  And then when I am using it, it randomly crashes to the desktop.  I spend 10-15 minutes loading up a fun flight only to have it break while flying.  Argh.

Anyway people can see by my screenshot thread posts that I have enjoyed parts of the sim...no denying that.

[davenicoll 104]

6 hours ago, filou said:

Ok.Do you have a gamepad plugged into your PC that you use for drone cmera? if so, it may give you interference.

No Filou,

 

No additional controllers...

 

Dave

[bobcat999 8,483]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

 And here is the question I pose to those who live in a state of disappointment, frustration, anger, worry, etc:  would you rather they delayed the release for say another 6-12 months? 

No, from my perspective, not at all. I wanted the sim as soon as I could get it, and I would never complain about early release.  I knew what I was getting into and I was fine with it.   But I think this is where some are misunderstanding the point of this thread. 
It's not about the state it was in at release, it is about where it has gone since with what some perceive to be backward steps, and the silly (but annoying) little bugs that have crept in at nearly all updates (Number 6 wasn't so bad).

There is no argument that the sim has some truly great aspects, and so much more potential, and nobody that paid money wants to abandon it, we want it to be successful or we have wasted our money.

I just wish some of you stop would stop with your straw man arguments about us or wanting to quit the sim, throw in the towel etc.  It is just not the case.  We are simply chewing the fat on what might be going wrong, and what Asobo could look at doing about it. 
That discussion is allowed by the way! 🙂  And all the names you see in this thread and this Avsim MSFS forum will still be here for quite a while I think.  I really don't think anybody is going away.  And I bet even those that claim they run back to another sim, sneak back again, as there is just so much exciting content being developed.

So, as the OP, I bring it back to the original question that started this, to ask opinions on why some of the updates have so many quirks, strangely not always associated with what is mentioned in the patch notes. 

I know they are not incompetent, as they would not be able to get where they did at launch, and I would never seriously claim that on a public forum, especially as they are so much more cleverer than me (although, as a Quality Manager, I would like a shot at their quality control 😁).  That 'incompetent' question was purposely juxtaposed to my other (tongue in cheek) comment about a potential saboteur.  By the same token then, as they are competent, and experienced, they will be able to take criticism.  If they foul up, they will get that from paying customers anyway - they have no choice in the matter.

After listening to a few points of view and summarizing, it seems it may be more down to rushing, sloppiness, 'spaghetti coding' as one put it, where one change can affect something else not directly associated, or just inexperience of some of the coders.  But judging by the strength of feeling I have seen in this thread (and it did surprise me), their checking and testing isn't good enough.

They say they will reduce the frequency of the updates, and start a beta program again - good.  But they also need to listen to feedback in more detail so we don't get a repeat of the night lighting 'improvement' again.

They also need to be quick about reversing things when they mess-up.  We have only had one hotfix up to now, for an error that was catastrophic for some and stopped them getting into the sim.  Or if they cannot do hotfixes, just be quicker about reversing a bad attempt, or getting stuff like the patched Carenado planes to the marketplace (why does that take so long?).

I think this is a general consensus of what a lot of people want, and it isn't asking for too much is it?  For those of you worrying that the criticisms might 'hurt' Asobo, it needs to a little bit - they need to roll with it and get better. 
They know this themselves actually, they talked about it a few times on the twitch feeds, and a little bit of reinforcement from paying customers wont kill them; if it did, then I would be worried!  😁

Edited November 30, 2020 by bobcat999

[UAL4life 239]

Yup give me back the release version. It’s getting to the point where it’s not even the same product I bought, let alone the “premium” content that has been broken and keeps getting worse. 

[Noel 4,502]

9 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

For people who don't have these issues.... wonderful

Are you pushing the bleeding edges here, in this immature, incomplete sim, with any mods of any kind whatsoever?  Changed anything to do w/ file structures in any way?  Haven't done a single one here, and have yet to have any signficant new issues w/ my default planes, TBM and recently the fix-wandering Citation L. 

I have a suspicion the more advanced among us in this very different platform designed to go to console and PC, especially those with the very long history of editing/modifying all sorts of things in the prior sims, may be contributing to their own problems.  Again, NO issues w/ anything of significance, including install and all patches.  That may not be you, but would not surprise me in the slightest if this was not playing some role in some peoples' issues.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Noel

[pmb 5,137]

3 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

At the moment I can't even enjoy what parts I was enjoying in the Sim.  It's stuck in a loading loop at Monument Valley screen.

For people who don't have these issues.... wonderful - that's probably a big reason why you think people like me are "whining." (Oops I said that word).

I can tell you I went through hard times when I originally bought MSFS from the MS Store and didn't get to run it, after having been in the alpha for half a year. Trying to "repair" these hidden directories, I nearly hosed my system and had to bring it to a shop. My story is somewhere here on AVSIM. So it's not that I didn't have my share of issues. 

I finally returend it and bought it from Steam again, and I like it and want it to thrive.

Kind regards, Michael

[bobcat999 8,483]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Are you pushing the bleeding edges here, in this immature, incomplete sim, with any mods of any kind whatsoever?   Haven't done one here, and have yet to have any signficant new issues w/ my default planes, TBM and recently the fix-wandering Citation L. 

I have a suspicion the more advanced among us in this very different platform designed to go to console and PC, especially those with the very long history of editing/modifying all sorts of things in the prior sims, may be contributing to their own problems.  Again, NO issues w/ anything of significance, including install and all patches.  That may not be you, but would not surprise me in the slightest if this was not playing some role in some peoples' issues.

Or maybe it is you that has the golden sample! 😁

[ADamiani 470]

Just my 2 cents, from an old time simmer (started in 1983 with a lot of courage and enthusiasm).

I am NOT going to justify the shortcomings of FS2020 by saying that FS2 was a sad slideshow and all that. Past times.

I will not say that after all nothing is perfect, or that when I write a program it's usually full of stupid bugs and then in time it improves.

I am currently head of a Data Science department called Real World Data, so this is my contribution today: a Reality Check.

My rig: 10900K 64 GB RAM and 2080TI. No overclock. Settings: 4K more or less all Ultra with 100 200 200 where you know.

Yesterday I flew my faithful steam gauges 172 over three different areas. First flight was over Rome (my home) at dusk. Absolute poetry for 20 minutes, then, all of a sudden, a couple random hiccups brought me back to Earth. Too bad.

Second flight: from somewhere 30 miles south of London to London City, daytime with scattered clouds. Beautiful. Smooth. Real (visually speaking). Then on final, a spare hiccup to destroy the illusion.

Third flight: London with real time and weather (and it was not nice). Beautiful visually, engaging, but way too jerky for my tastes. Forget it (but it was a challenge so I had to find Heathrow and land with stutters and everything)

Fourth flight: takeoff from Florence with a few clouds at dusk. Had a tour of the city (beautifully rendered), then up north to a town called Prato where I used to live 40 years ago. Flew over (and actually recognized) my building and the window of my room, then headed to my primary school. Everything was there. Recognizable, beautiful.

Then West to the hills, and finally landed on a never heard before strip. No hiccups, no problem at all. Just flying.

What a rewarding, emotional experience!

What does the Reality check tell me? That this simulator is infuriating, because when it works it does so with such beauty and involvement, it's a promise of joy and entertainment. But then, suddenly, something happens and you want to throw everything out of the window. And most times this is pretty much random. (except the hiccup when getting close to the ground: that happens pretty often, exactly a moment before I hear the screeching sound of tires on runway).

Thinking back of previous experiences with other simulators at day one, I believe MSFS will be consistently great, let's hope sooner than later.

Just one think we should ask ASOBO: PLEASE NO MORE CRIPPLING UPDATES.

Because THOSE are really too much :-))))

Andrea

[leprechaunlive 1,852]

1 hour ago, langly said:

All of you who are making excuses and saying "no software is perfect" need to come off from riding the Asobo/Microsoft hype train.

It's actually insane to see people justify software that ceases to operate at the most basic level (how many CTDs do we need from this past update?) for a LOT of people. Saying "it works fine for me, must be you" is such a stupid and selfish take when there are multiple reports and post after post showing the same issue.

Asobo is not some small studio that came out of nowhere, they are a well established team of professionals who have been doing this for a long time. To give them a pass because (in your opinion) this is the best looking simulator to day, is so naive and shortsighted.

MSFS is the pretty girl with an empty head... it's exciting at first but you slowly start to realize nothing of substance is really there.

I've said it before, but the suckers here that are willing to accept absolute mediocrity would have made my past company so much more successful.

But it works for me so it must be you? 

How can you insult someone in every post you make and still be here? 

 

[devgrp 1,233]

27 minutes ago, Noel said:

Are you pushing the bleeding edges here, in this immature, incomplete sim, with any mods of any kind whatsoever?  Changed anything to do w/ file structures in any way?  Haven't done a single one here, and have yet to have any signficant new issues w/ my default planes, TBM and recently the fix-wandering Citation L. 

I have a suspicion the more advanced among us in this very different platform designed to go to console and PC, especially those with the very long history of editing/modifying all sorts of things in the prior sims, may be contributing to their own problems.  Again, NO issues w/ anything of significance, including install and all patches.  That may not be you, but would not surprise me in the slightest if this was not playing some role in some peoples' issues.

I agree. Only problem I've had since release is when windows defender prevented from starting up and that was an easy fix 

[devgrp 1,233]

29 minutes ago, pmb said:

I can tell you I went through hard times when I originally bought MSFS from the MS Store and didn't get to run it, after having been in the alpha for half a year. Trying to "repair" these hidden directories, I nearly hosed my system and had to bring it to a shop. My story is somewhere here on AVSIM. So it's not that I didn't have my share of issues. 

I finally returend it and bought it from Steam again, and I like it and want it to thrive.

Kind regards, Michael

I don't know what you guys are doing for the sim to hose your system. I've been in the alpha and never had a problem with with instalation or update. The alpha was installed on a system with XP and p3d. Deleted those right after I installed msfs and have never had a single issue 

[ryanbatc 12,857]

26 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

 

What does the Reality check tell me? That this simulator is infuriating, because when it works it does so with such beauty and involvement, it's a promise of joy and entertainment. But then, suddenly, something happens and you want to throw everything out of the window. 

Your experiences are identical to mine (just substitute the locations haha).

Truly.  About half the time the sim amazing.  Wow I can't believe I'm doing this while sitting in the comfort of my home.  The other half is those experiences being ruined by bugs/crashes.

[Ron Attwood 3,465]

4 minutes ago, devgrp said:

I don't know what you guys are doing for the sim to hose your system.

That's a whole new thread right there! 😀

[devgrp 1,233]

26 minutes ago, ADamiani said:

Just my 2 cents, from an old time simmer (started in 1983 with a lot of courage and enthusiasm).

I am NOT going to justify the shortcomings of FS2020 by saying that FS2 was a sad slideshow and all that. Past times.

I will not say that after all nothing is perfect, or that when I write a program it's usually full of stupid bugs and then in time it improves.

I am currently head of a Data Science department called Real World Data, so this is my contribution today: a Reality Check.

My rig: 10900K 64 GB RAM and 2080TI. No overclock. Settings: 4K more or less all Ultra with 100 200 200 where you know.

Yesterday I flew my faithful steam gauges 172 over three different areas. First flight was over Rome (my home) at dusk. Absolute poetry for 20 minutes, then, all of a sudden, a couple random hiccups brought me back to Earth. Too bad.

Second flight: from somewhere 30 miles south of London to London City, daytime with scattered clouds. Beautiful. Smooth. Real (visually speaking). Then on final, a spare hiccup to destroy the illusion.

Third flight: London with real time and weather (and it was not nice). Beautiful visually, engaging, but way too jerky for my tastes. Forget it (but it was a challenge so I had to find Heathrow and land with stutters and everything)

Fourth flight: takeoff from Florence with a few clouds at dusk. Had a tour of the city (beautifully rendered), then up north to a town called Prato where I used to live 40 years ago. Flew over (and actually recognized) my building and the window of my room, then headed to my primary school. Everything was there. Recognizable, beautiful.

Then West to the hills, and finally landed on a never heard before strip. No hiccups, no problem at all. Just flying.

What a rewarding, emotional experience!

What does the Reality check tell me? That this simulator is infuriating, because when it works it does so with such beauty and involvement, it's a promise of joy and entertainment. But then, suddenly, something happens and you want to throw everything out of the window. And most times this is pretty much random. (except the hiccup when getting close to the ground: that happens pretty often, exactly a moment before I hear the screeching sound of tires on runway).

Thinking back of previous experiences with other simulators at day one, I believe MSFS will be consistently great, let's hope sooner than later.

Just one think we should ask ASOBO: PLEASE NO MORE CRIPPLING UPDATES.

Because THOSE are really too much :-))))

Andrea

What exactly were those hiccups? I have the same system and running at ultra with 200 lod, and detail is asking for trouble. I know this is a new sim, but why are people obsessed with ultra, when the difference is no even noticeable when flying around. I have a mix of high and med settings with my render set to 80. No hiccups, no stutters and I have great performance everywhere. Tried ultra and can't notice any discernable difference