10 hours ago, Bdub22 said:

And further - I’ve seen the previews up the upcoming X-Plane release. Until they can figure out lighting alone, they’ll be lost in the dust. MSFS is so immersive on just the lighting alone that it will continue to leave XPlane in the dust. This is not me hating on XPlane. I’ve used it for years and love it. But if they want to stay alive, they’re gonna have to start innovating, which in a lot of cases, ends up saving a company. Either way, I’m happy to see my life long hobby have this unexpected rebirth. 

Without real world ground textures and scenery streaming other sims don't stand a chance. I loved P3D and used it since v1 but since I'm using MSFS it looks bland, flat and unrealistic. The only drawback of MSFS was the lack of study level aircraft. This is also changing lately. PMDG brought DC-6, and now Fenix is bringing A320. When A2A comes to the party, I'm good.

Right now the only thing that scares me (apart from the game-ish menus) is the fact that at any given time, if MS pulls the plug on the servers, this sim is simply gone. Let's hope it lasts because once aircraft like this (if it matches expectations) start to appear, there's no turning back.

@Nuno Pinto Did you know MFS works offline? It looks terrible when it's not streaming scenery, but it does still work. Installation could be more of an issue though as only the launcher is hosted at the stores (Steam, MS Store), especially when you see how MS pulled the plug on Flight in GWF store.

I'm somewhat relieved to see a Fenix video, up until now it was just an unverifiable featurelist and a bunch of pretty still screenshots, now I have some assurance there is actual code that does stuff behind those previews.

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by ckyliu

13 minutes ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Right now the only thing that scares me (apart from the game-ish menus) is the fact that at any given time, if MS pulls the plug on the servers, this sim is simply gone. Let's hope it lasts because once aircraft like this (if it matches expectations) start to appear, there's no turning back.

I tend to agree.  There seems at times to be an almost celebratory mood on here about the possible demise of other sims (P3D and XP).  I am cautious also, because if the numbers are not what MS wants then it could be instant bye-bye.  Nothing to fall back on once the servers are dead.   But, if it can get a 10-year run, then not too bad, I guess.  But, I would like to know there is something else to go to at that point.

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by JNS

16 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

@Nuno Pinto Did you know MFS works offline? It looks terrible when it's not streaming scenery, but it does still work. Installation could be more of an issue though as only the launcher is hosted at the stores (Steam, MS Store), especially when you see how MS pulled the plug on Flight in GWF store.

 

Yeah i know and it doesn't look THAT bad either. I'd say it still looks nicer than what P3D can offer, so...

27 minutes ago, JNS said:

I tend to agree.  There seems at times to be an almost celebratory mood on here about the possible demise of other sims (P3D and XP).  I am cautious also, because if the numbers are not what MS wants then it could be instant bye-bye.  Nothing to fall back on once the servers are dead.   But, if it can get a 10-year run, then not too bad, I guess.  But, I would like to know there is something else to go to at that point.

We've discussed this in this other thread here: 

The consensus is, satellite/photogrammetry streaming is really cheap for Microsoft.  It's unlikely Microsoft will pull the plugs because it costs very little to them.

After 10 years (technically 9 years, since MSFS has been released for almost a year), of course expect MSFS 2.  It's another chance for Microsoft to make some more money from the flight sim community.

BTW, it's not celebratory for me at least.  I am on the record as saying if P3D or X-Plane can leap frog MSFS in graphics, the streaming of  satellite/photogrammetry, and other technological areas, and keep the price as low as possible, I will be the first to jump ship from MSFS and get P3D or X-Plane.  I owe Microsoft/Asobo nothing.  I just want the best flight simulator possible at the best price.

But since I came from business school and all you do in business school is analyze case study by case study by case study, MSFS vs P3D/X-Plane is a very interesting case study for me and IMO, it's a huge uphill battle for P3D and X-Plane.  With respect to P3D, Aerosoft, JustFlight, FSCrew, and possibly even Milviz have stopped making new products for P3D because the market for new products in P3D is very small now.  P3D's future is not in a good position for the home simulator market at the moment (although ironically, most home users of P3D are side skirting their license I think).

 

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

19 minutes ago, JNS said:

I tend to agree.  There seems at times to be an almost celebratory mood on here about the possible demise of other sims (P3D and XP). 

I'm not happy at all about P3D or X-Plane "dying" after MSFS turns into the "best" simulator out there, but if it is as smooth as promised with WU5, with the environment it offers (which is word not allowed good) and reliable/trusty aircraft such as PMDG/FSL level, my brain will simply force me to switch and forget the past like i did for FS9 and later on FSX 😞

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by Nuno Pinto

59 minutes ago, JNS said:

I tend to agree.  There seems at times to be an almost celebratory mood on here about the possible demise of other sims (P3D and XP).  I am cautious also, because if the numbers are not what MS wants then it could be instant bye-bye.  Nothing to fall back on once the servers are dead.   But, if it can get a 10-year run, then not too bad, I guess.  But, I would like to know there is something else to go to at that point.

I wouldn’t say I’m celebratory, but I do recognize that for the past 10 years or so we had a pretty distorted (you could also say “unhealthy”) market situation in civil flight simulation. Producers in the market, both those who sold the sims and those who sold the addons, became what’s known in the biz as “fat and happy.” I’m not even saying they were making a lot of profit — indeed, with a small and perhaps shrinking market they may not have been — but they were comfortable and everything mostly stagnated. At the same time, prices crept steadily upward, and they weren’t exactly starting low, either. The PMDG 747 released in 2008 (if I recall correctly) cost about a third of the one they released a few years ago.

All of which is to say that the market was hugely overdue for a correction. With MSFS, and now Fenix, we’re finally seeing that happen. As excited as I am to see what Fenix can pull off with their tech/systems, what I’m really excited about is if they can successfully anchor prices for MSFS “hifi” addons to a lower point than we’ve seen in a decade. That would be such a win-win for everyone, if it shows the PMDGs of this world that it can be done, and it can be done lucratively.

Great time to be a simmer!

James

Does MS even own the 3d imagery? Isn't that owned by BlackShark AI?

Pretty certain whoever owns the 3D world they are not exclusively going to license it for flight simulator use and it's going to be sold to others to do many other things.

In other words, the world that has been created for Flight Simulator should continue to live on.

@Nuno Pinto

A quick glance at the download numbers on another site gives an indication as to the attach rate MSFS has had... 

Most downloaded:  H135 project:  almost 275,000 downloads.    Then there are a number of others in the 10,000-80,000 downloads range.  

I'd be interested how that compares to downloads of popular freeware projects in comparable sims... Maybe it's just me but I don't think I remember ANYTHING in FSX, P3D or XPlane with 275,000 downloads.   That's before X-Box.  

Gives some insight as to how quick MSFS has gained adoption.  I would say this sim is on track for 500,000 users easy with XBox.  

I don't see anyone pulling the plug on that.  

 

Edit:  A quick glance shows the most downloaded file in the library here had under 10,000 downloads. So yeah, MSFS downloads are exponentially higher.

 Shocking was the number of files over the past 365 days downloaded for FS9 and FSX!!  Wow. 

 

Edited July 15, 20214 yr by psolk

Yeah the adoption was simply insane when compared to FS98 - FSX even with all those put together.

A lot of people still fly with FS9, FSX. I guess they decided that's where they want to draw the line and if they're happy with what they get out of their sims, why not?

I like to be an early adopter (i installed Windows 11 everywhere as it works so nice already), but i have to be comfortable in that environment, so when a good long-hauler and a medium-hauler come out, i will probably make the definitive jump to MSFS while other models join in. I can't even imagine how it will be when an MD-11 gets to be flyable in MSFS. Oh Lord! *hint hint TFDi*

2 hours ago, Nuno Pinto said:

Right now the only thing that scares me (apart from the game-ish menus) is the fact that at any given time, if MS pulls the plug on the servers, this sim is simply gone. Let's hope it lasts because once aircraft like this (if it matches expectations) start to appear, there's no turning back.

No guarantees in life, unfortunately. 

why on earth when ever there is an exciting topic about a new developers with a great product (virtually with hard supporting evidence) coming to MSFS like Fenix in this case, the subject turns to discuss other sims chances of existence and the quality of 3rd party products running on them?

it is running like fire in bushes on all related threads in this forum.

why can't we just enjoy the moment that we have and give support to the new developers?

Please, don't kill the excitement/enjoyment of a new fidelity product (even if still on paper) and give support to the new champs.

3 hours ago, honanhal said:

I wouldn’t say I’m celebratory, but I do recognize that for the past 10 years or so we had a pretty distorted (you could also say “unhealthy”) market situation in civil flight simulation. Producers in the market, both those who sold the sims and those who sold the addons, became what’s known in the biz as “fat and happy.” I’m not even saying they were making a lot of profit — indeed, with a small and perhaps shrinking market they may not have been — but they were comfortable and everything mostly stagnated. At the same time, prices crept steadily upward, and they weren’t exactly starting low, either. The PMDG 747 released in 2008 (if I recall correctly) cost about a third of the one they released a few years ago.

 

Bingo....

LM and LR were fine with stale development and letting 3PD fill in the gaps (with addons that mainly killed performance). Leaving users with bloated Frankenstein sims just to have an immersive experience.

P3D had an identity crisis (who is it for) and LR simply did not identify (no user engagement) with its users.

I don't feel sorry for the competition, they sat back for years doing much of nothing, even the flight sim conventions were boring....having the Devs come with nothing much to say.

The writing has been on the wall ever since the initial MSFS teaser vid shown the same weekend as a flight sim convention, and stealing all of the attention from that point forward.

1 hour ago, penta_a said:

why on earth when ever there is an exciting topic about a new developers with a great product (virtually with hard supporting evidence) coming to MSFS like Fenix in this case, the subject turns to discuss other sims chances of existence and the quality of 3rd party products running on them?

it is running like fire in bushes on all related threads in this forum.

why can't we just enjoy the moment that we have and give support to the new developers?

I think folk "are" enjoying the moment...and realizing that the more Devs that come to MSFS (particularly high fidelity aircraft), the better chances MSFS has of being around for the next 10 years.

We have had 2 failed launches over the last decade (FSW and Flight....both being associated with Microsoft), so many people want MSFS to "dominate" and "bury" the competition...not to mention that some folk remember just how stagnant development was when LR and LM were at the helm. Out with the old...In with the new...