5 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Wrong! If a product is sold, knowingly, that pushed temp  beyond the capability of most people's systems to cool properly, then obviously, the developer is selling a product that is not fit for purpose for most of its intended customers. 

So with your logic, if a software was released that caused all of the systems running it to overheat, you would say its not the developer fault, get better cooling. Weird logic my friend. Its fairly obvious that a product has to be "fit for purpose" and if it overheats the majority of people PC's, then its not fit for purpose.

As Is said... "We can blame a developer for a temp issue if the software generates a heat load that is beyond the average customers likely cooling capacity."

 

You obviously have no background in electronic or hardware so I can understand that you might not get this but in the case of New World and the eVGA 3090, the ocp circuit should have trigger way before it damages the card. Again, physical issue. You really don't get it do you ?  Nvidia is not responsible if you put their video card in a word not allowed case with nor airflow. That's on YOU.  If you live a house where it's 100F inside and your GPU is running hot, That's on YOU.  Software is not the issue here. You have to stop this fairy tales that developer are too blame for your inabilities to understand the laws of thermal dynamics.  This is not software. 

On 2/7/2022 at 10:25 AM, hangar said:

My question about all this is, what can be done to limit the gpu while in the msfs main menu, for those of us who don't want to cap our frames during flight?

 

My guess is the MSFS main menu is running at an extremely high and unnecessary framerate.  So why not just set (in nVidia Control Panel assuming an nVidia card) a framerate limit of 150?  I don't know too many people getting 150FPS in flight, so essentially a setting like that is NOT capping your frames during flight, but might keep your GPU temps in check at the MSFS main menu.  If the highest FPS you ever see in flight is 55, then set the FPS cap at something like 60 or 70.

30 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

You obviously have no background in electronic or hardware so I can understand that you might not get this but in the case of New World and the eVGA 3090, the ocp circuit should have trigger way before it damages the card. Again, physical issue.

 

Already covered by buildzoid in the video I posted. OCP or one of the other protections did trip for users who had the New World issue. As evidenced by the black screen and after power reset, protections were reset and the boards fired up again. Some users had as many as five OCP shut downs before the cards eventually failed. 

 

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Again, physical issue. You really don't get it do you ? 

 

Yes thank you, I do get it. Do you? Go back and read my previous reply. It wasn't a software issue and it wasn't a hardware issue... IT WAS BOTH! 

Again, as I said before, there were  software AND there were hardware issues. Solder issue with the mosfets and if you like, failure of OCP to protect the cards after repeated tripping. Again, check out the jayz2cents video in regard to the software side of the equation.

 

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 Nvidia is not responsible if you put their video card in a word not allowed case with nor airflow. That's on YOU.

 

Well obviously. But New World wasn't a temperature or cooling issue, it was power spikes. As for "when a developer IS responsible for thermal issues encountered", that was a separate comment, nothing to do with New World or the sim. Purely to point out WHEN a developer is responsible for thermal issues. 

 

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If you live a house where it's 100F inside and your GPU is running hot, That's on YOU.  Software is not the issue here. 

 

Of course it is on us in that scenario. And nothing to do with anything I said. That's completely out of context. Go back and consider context. I was telling you WHEN a developer CAN be responsible for thermal issues. Not that the the developers ARE responsible in terms of the sim, New World or anything else. 🙄

 

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You have to stop this fairy tales that developer are too blame for your inabilities to understand the laws of thermal dynamics.

 

Have you accidently responded to the wrong person? Again, go back and read what I bothered to type. No fairy tales as you put it. Its OBVIOUS that if the vast majority of a companies customer base cant run software due to thermal issues or any other issues that the software is then not fit for purpose. I did not say that applied to the sim, New World or any other application. Again, I was telling you WHEN a developer CAN be regarded as culpable, ethically and legally not that one was. 

 

This is not rocket science. Read replies properly and consider context before you revert to rudeness please. 🙄

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by martin-w

44 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Wrong! As we've already established, software is perfectly capable of forcing hardware beyond its power limits or introducing dangerous power spikes. So clearly the "Dev" can have a lot to do with it.

Wrong again! If a product is sold, knowingly, that pushed temp  beyond the capability of most people's systems to cool properly, then obviously, the developer is selling a product that is not fit for purpose for most of its intended customers. 

 

No, as long as your case cooling is adequate, it's completely the card manufacturer's responsibility to make sure it doesn't overheat - either by hardware design, or by means of the GPU driver. There are so many things going on in the driver between a game's rendering engine and the actual graphics hardware that it's pretty ridiculous to blame the game developer for overheating a GPU. For example, as a developer you can write shaders all the way you like, but in the end when the video driver adds support for your game, most of your shader code gets replaced by an optimised version before it even reaches the graphics card. 

The whole idea behind a graphics API such as DirectX along with its GPU driver system is to make sure the game developer doesn't have to care at all about the graphics hardware. In reality this isn't entirely true, especially when it comes to optimisations, but that doesn't mean a normal software should ever be able to break your hardware. 

And btw, I still fail to see any unreasonable GPU temps in this thread. It's mostly a thread of flight simmers being surprised by the temperatures you get when your GPU is running at 100% as opposed to <50% typical for a rendering engine based on CPU-bound FSX code. Even 15 years after the release of FSX, it's still there at the heart of P3d, and never entirely lost its dependence on main thread CPU performance.

There's one point I'll gladly agree to though: MSFS should reduce the GPU load during startup and main menu navigation.

 

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by pstrub

14 minutes ago, PlumCrazy said:

 

My guess is the MSFS main menu is running at an extremely high and unnecessary framerate.  So why not just set (in nVidia Control Panel assuming an nVidia card) a framerate limit of 150?  I don't know too many people getting 150FPS in flight, so essentially a setting like that is NOT capping your frames during flight, but might keep your GPU temps in check at the MSFS main menu.  If the highest FPS you ever see in flight is 55, then set the FPS cap at something like 60 or 70.

 

The menus are yes, and it appears to be because its rendering a detailed hangar scene in the background that requires resources. 

60 ort 70 frame rate cap doesn't work for me. I've tried it. I'm not talking about thermal issues of course, my system is cool, just the somewhat annoying fan noise (that you would normally regard as normal under load while flying. 

A cap of 30 does work, but then my system is smooth and stutter free without any frame rate cap so I prefer not to set one.

What would be nice, and I believe some titles have this, is a frame rate cap for just the menus, as well as a frame rate cap for in the sim flying. 

7 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

The menus are yes, and it appears to be because its rendering a detailed hangar scene in the background that requires resources. 

60 ort 70 frame rate cap doesn't work for me. I've tried it. I'm not talking about thermal issues of course, my system is cool, just the somewhat annoying fan noise (that you would normally regard as normal under load while flying. 

A cap of 30 does work, but then my system is smooth and stutter free without any frame rate cap so I prefer not to set one.

What would be nice, and I believe some titles have this, is a frame rate cap for just the menus, as well as a frame rate cap for in the sim flying. 

You adjust your fan curve. If your fan needs to go full out because you are running 70fps , it's because the hardware sensor and the software fan curve determine it needed to ramp up. You can use MSI Afterburner for that.  A few tweak can lower the sound. It's the only thing I do agree with you on this whole thread is that uncapped framerate in menu is a bit overkilled in MSFS is and not required. Not only in-game but during the install/download process as well.

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by fogboundturtle

13 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

You adjust your fan curve. If your fan needs to go full out because you are running 70fps , it's because the hardware sensor and the software fan curve determine it needed to ramp up. You can use MSI Afterburner for that.  A few tweak can lower the sound. It's the only thing I do agree with you on this whole thread is that uncapped framerate in menu is a bit overkilled in MSFS is and not required. Not only in-game but during the install/download process as well.

 

Well yes of course. My fan curves are fine thanks. That's not the issue. I use Precision X1, not Afterburner.

The issue is that we don't expect to get much in the way of fan noise at all when simply in the menus, not running the sim. Load temps in the menus are unusual. (Its not a case of wrong fan curves) Hence why it would be nice to stop the sim rendering a highly detailed hangar in the background, or if the developer included a menu frame rate cap as some titles do.

Modifying fan curves to suit the menus but not when running the sim itself is not a solution. 

If you don't agree with me on an anything else then you need to go back and read it again. Its fact, logic, common sense. IF you regard it in context. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 20224 yr by martin-w

Wait 60 is a problem?

I peak around 60 in a lot of stuff, but I'm aircooled so it's expected. If it goes to 70 start to be concerned. (celcius)

FPS isn't related to heat by the way 😄 you may just need to drop settings if your pc is struggling to render it all.

My 3080 fan is quite loud when I load MSFS. Otherwise is totally quite. Does anyone else have loud fan noise?

4 hours ago, mikegrr said:

My 3080 fan is quite loud when I load MSFS. Otherwise is totally quite. Does anyone else have loud fan noise?

I would try to limit my Max Frame Rate for MSFS under Program settings in NCP at 58 FPS or lower.

I've tested my 1080ti and 8700K thermals they will both hit safety shutdown when temps are too high, usually 15 minutes in MSFS without waterflow.

Causing whatever game or sim I'm playing to do a hard freeze and require a total system restart.

Now MSFS's weird initial load causing my GPU coils to whine and temps to rise still does make me nervous, but my card has been running MSFS fine since release with this issue.

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by blueshark747

Still though, I would like to see the menu's changed so that the gpu won't need to be doing much of anything. I will often walk away for short periods of time while in the menu and why should any menu system need to put heavy wear & tear on my hardware? It is wasted resources for me, and it shouldn't have to be necessary. IMO, this was a poor design decision and really should be changed.

32 minutes ago, hangar said:

Still though, I would like to see the menu's changed so that the gpu won't need to be doing much of anything. I will often walk away for short periods of time while in the menu and why should any menu system need to put heavy wear & tear on my hardware? It is wasted resources for me, and it shouldn't have to be necessary. IMO, this was a poor design decision and really should be changed.

Are you hearing the coil whine also?

I've never experience this in any other software and didn't know my GPU was even capable making such music.🤣

It starts the coil whine at the main loading bar screen before the main menu after that it stops and back to quiet operations.

35 minutes ago, hangar said:

Still though, I would like to see the menu's changed so that the gpu won't need to be doing much of anything. I will often walk away for short periods of time while in the menu and why should any menu system need to put heavy wear & tear on my hardware? It is wasted resources for me, and it shouldn't have to be necessary. IMO, this was a poor design decision and really should be changed.

exactly.  There is no reason for the wear, noise, heat etc.  it's a menu.  they need to fix this.  

Your wish has been granted. SU8 reduce GPU load during install.

Lower GPU consumption when installing packages while the sim is booting
Lower GPU consumption when the main window is minimized

 

Edited February 10, 20224 yr by fogboundturtle