9 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

If anything, it’s the FBW A320 that is probably competing against the Fenix A320.  As for the Fenix A320 vs PMDG 737, they are not really competing, IMO.

I wouldn't say we're competing with Fenix at all. We're just a bunch of developers and pilots working on this plane for fun in our free time, and giving back to the community. We don't have any investors or partners to answer to, and no investment to recoup. I would say this applies to pretty much any freeware project.

 

On the other hand, payware companies ARE competing with both payware and high quality freeware projects, as either of these which offer significant functionality can compete with sales, and payware companies do have an investment to recoup, and profits to turn.

 

Just my two cents.

1 hour ago, IcemanFBW said:

I wouldn't say we're competing with Fenix at all. We're just a bunch of developers and pilots working on this plane for fun in our free time, and giving back to the community. We don't have any investors or partners to answer to, and no investment to recoup. I would say this applies to pretty much any freeware project.

 

On the other hand, payware companies ARE competing with both payware and high quality freeware projects, as either of these which offer significant functionality can compete with sales, and payware companies do have an investment to recoup, and profits to turn.

 

Just my two cents.

Don’t get me wrong, maybe I didn’t word it well.  What I meant was, from a business standpoint, the FBW A320 is the competition for Fenix A320 in that the FBW A320 is pulling the price of the Fenix A320 downward.  

There is no doubt that the “hard core” A320 fans who want the ultimate study level A320, will buy the Fenix A320, even if the price is very high. But then there are the “less hard core” fence sitters that are happy with the FBW A320 but wouldn’t mind a higher fidelity A320 if the price is low enough.  If Fenix prices their A320 too high, these fence sitters will not purchase the Fenix A320.

So the FBW A320 is providing competition for the Fenix A320 from a business standpoint.  Conversely, the Fenix A320 is not really providing competition to the FBW A320 from a business standpoint because of course, the FBW team are all volunteers and the FBW A320 is free,

Back to the topic of the 737 PMDG vs Fenix A320.  I don’t think either are really competing heavily against each other from a business standpoint because they are completely different planes and even the manufacturer is different.  The main competition for the PMDG 737 is probably the Bredok 737 in MSFS.  

I will say one thing though about the pricing of the 737 PMDG.  There is this expectation now with MSFS simmers that the price of add-ons should be lower than in the past.  A lot of sceneries are cheaper in MSFS than P3D/XP.  And then you have PMDG making the DC-6 cheaper in MSFS than it is in P3D and XP.  So some type of expectation has been conditioned in MSFS simmers on prices now.  Assuming Fenix doesn't price the Fenix A320 above $80 USD, I believe that if PMDG prices the PMGD 737 up to 30% above the Fenix A320, there will be some grumblings, but people will still buy it (because it is such a different plane than the A320).  But if PMDG sticks to their price of $140 USD for the PMDG 737, which is what they originally claimed they would sell it for, there may be some sort of backlash in the community that it is way overpriced and then you will have people calling the 737 at $140 USD a "rip off," even if it's very high fidelity.  At $140 USD, it will look so much more expensive than the Aerosoft CRJ, their own PMDG DC-6, and the Fenix A320 (assuming the Fenix A320 isn't more than $80 USD).  It really seems MSFS simmers aren't willing to accept such a high price now for add-ons so it will be interesting to see what happens if PMDG really decides to stick to their guns and sell it for $140 USD.  Because of this conditioning of MSFS simmers to expect lower prices for add-ons these days, if Fenix did price the Fenix A320 above $100 USD, it would perhaps reset the conditioning that MSFS simmers are used to lower prices, and provide cover for PMDG to sell the 737 at $140 USD (but Fenix would have to release their A320 first above $100 USD, so that the conditioning of the MSFS community to lower prices is reset - if PMDG releases the 737 first and prices it at $140 USD, the conditioning will still be there and I think you will have people calling the 737 a "rip off" at $140 USD).

 

Edited August 14, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

A summary of what has been said?

5 hours ago, WestAir said:

I feel like PMDG internally regrets this move. They'd probably feel way more comfortable pricing the 737 in the $60 to $80 mark for MSFS, but have no way of doing that now because they funded initial development with there P3D prices. 

Complete conjecture / assumption but figured I'd share it.

Well I cannot see PMDG giving refunds. So even at best its going to be $100. (free for me as a NGu buyer, well not free but bought for P3D with the MSFS blar blar blar)

The Fenix will proberly be like the PMDG NG a day one buy.

Edited August 14, 20214 yr by Nyxx

Never understood the obsession about the exterior model detail. Personally I am spending 99.9% of the time in the cockpit.

More important is the performance hit.

3 minutes ago, roi1862 said:

Never understood the obsession about the exterior model detail. Personally I am spending 99.9% of the time in the cockpit.

More important is the performance hit.

Personally, I think the visual exterior model is as important as the interior detail. Yes we spend most the time in the cockpit, but theres nothing better than looking at a plane with high quality detail sitting at a high quality airport from the outside and admiring it, or flying over some amazing clouds. We finally have our new simulator that we've been waiting for years and so far, in the graphic and lighting aspect, Asobo has aced it. I mean just looking at Fenixs stream, WOW. Not everyone gets to get up and close to aircraft in real life, so its a good opportunity to get up close and personal. It also opens up a whole new walk around world to us simmers who aren't real pilots! I can see Sydney Airport from my 16th level apartment and I still admire every time a plane takes off. Us humans are visual creatures, we are wowed by how good we can get to real life in a screen in front of us. I used to watch Air Crash Investigations and some of their video renders looked soo good I used to say imagine FSX looked like that haha and now we have a sim that pulls that off. 

 

48 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

free for me as a NGu buyer, well not free but bought for P3D with the MSFS

it's not free. You will pay the differential between  cost of NG3 -  cost of NGXu . At least that was the carrot at the time for purchasing NGXu.

Quote

NGXu for Prepar3D is  available right now for $99.99 USD. Buyers of the NGXu before 31DEC19 will receive a $99.99 USD rebate on their purchase of the NG3 once it is released. Randazzo further explained that the anticipated market price of the NG3 will be $139.99 USD. Customers who buy the NGXu before year end will be able to purchase the NG3 for an additional fee of $40.00 USD, and will own both products.

 

Edited August 14, 20214 yr by SAS443

22 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

it's not free. You will pay the differential between  cost of NG3 -  cost of NGXu . At least that was the carrot at the time for purchasing NGXu.

 

I just read Randazzo's original quote and he uses the wording "giving you full credit":

Quote

As a gesture of thanks to our customers that purchase NGXu, we are giving you full credit for your purchase price against the purchase of NG3 in MSFS when that product releases. We thought this would be a nice way to make the transition as painless as possible for you.

We anticipate NG3 going to market at around $139.99. NGXu is priced at $99.99. If you purchase NGXu, you will only be charged $40 at that time, while new customers to NG3 will pay the full $139.99.

Since people purchased the NGXu on P3D for $99.99, "full credit" in the context of these three sentences means the "full credit" is $99.99, which means they get $99.99 off the purchase price of the 737 for MSFS.  This means if the 737 for MSFS is priced lower than $99.99 in MSFS, people that purchased the NGXu for P3D should get the 737 in MSFS for free.

Somehow, I think Randazzo regrets using that wording, especially if he plans to price the 737 for MSFS under $99.99.  I'm not a lawyer, but the use of the wording "full credit" and $99.99 mentioned right below it to give context of what "full credit" means ... ouch ... ...

Edited August 14, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

5 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I just read Randazzo's original quote and he uses the wording "giving you full credit":

Since people purchased the NGXu on P3D for $99.99, "full credit" in the context of these three sentences means the "full credit" is $99.99, which means they get $99.99 off the purchase price of the 737 for MSFS.  This means if the 737 for MSFS is priced lower than $99.99 in MSFS, people that purchased the NGXu for P3D should get the 737 in MSFS for free.

Somehow, I think Randazzo regrets using that wording, especially if he plans to price the 737 for MSFS under $99.99.  I'm not a lawyer, but the use of the wording "full credit" and $99.99 mentioned right below it to give context of what "full credit" means ... ouch ... ...

Thanks I stand corrected.  My bad Nyxx

 Good for customer.

1 hour ago, roi1862 said:

Never understood the obsession about the exterior model detail. Personally I am spending 99.9% of the time in the cockpit.

More important is the performance hit.

The question is more of a question of where we draw the line on realism. MSFS 2030 may well allow devs to model full damage models where a 20* bank on landing will have your engine flatten and wingtips shear off. You might have the Concorde, or any airframe, stretch in flight from thermal heating.

There is a desire - an allure - to playing sandbox with our World. Where should we stop? I think the answer is different for everybody.

nvm..........

The level of detail is insane. I havent seen anything like this in any other sim or game. Goes to show what msfs rendering engine is truly capable of. 

PMDG just need to brand the 737 differently from NG3 and nothing they said applies to the "new" product anymore.

That said I don't think they will do that.

Karl

For everyone who has missed the session:

 

52 minutes ago, Baber20 said:

The level of detail is insane. I havent seen anything like this in any other sim or game. Goes to show what msfs rendering engine is truly capable of. 

Right? Look at this:

Look at the ribbing on the skin at the center left of the image. I mean this is a gorgeous model. I have never wanted to buy an addon more than I do now.