DX12 - 18th November!

[styckx 1,872]

3 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Xplane has never used DX12, ever.  It uses vulkan…… 

I'm the word not allowed today. It was Prepar3D not X-Plane. I had the problem correct but the wrong sim. 

My apologies. I'll admit fault entirely on me here. 

[DylanM 1,069]

More info on DX12 ultimate here:

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/geforce-rtx-ready-for-directx-12-ultimate/

Now as others have noted, the devs have said very clearly not to expect an increase in performance at initial release. It'll probably be a while until things like VRS, sampler feedback and mesh shading are fully implemented in the sim - but when they are there should be some happy campers...

[abranpuko 369]

5 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

From my understanding, DirectX 12 allows "lower level access" to the graphics card.  In software development terms, "lower level access" means the software developer has more control of how the hardware behaves, but the software developer also spends much more time writing the software, if they use low level calls.

For example, if you can write in assembly, you have precise control of every instruction sent to the CPU.  Nobody writes in assembly though because it takes forever to even do the most basic things.  Having said that, some games that need to be super optimized may do certain parts of their function calls in assembly.  But only a very small faction of calls.  If you write a modern game entirely in assembly like MSFS, it would take you probably thousands of years to complete it.  You'll be dead and the software development team will be dead before the game is even completed.

In the same way, DirectX 12 offers "lower level access" for game developers to the graphics card.  But game developers need to take the time to take advantage of it.

Also, I believe DLSS is something that DirectX 12 offers for Nvidia card users.  Asobo said they would look into DLSS (but they didn't promise they would implement it, probably because AMD card users won't benefit from it).

thank you very mucho for the information!

[Tuskin38 6,550]

50 minutes ago, jbdbow1970 said:

DX12 = More system resource. hope you have enough vram.

Only if the developers don't put in their own limits.

[z06z33 763]

I dont see how the FPS could get much better with the graphics we have honestly. Even my old GL702VS laptop runs jets at high settings at 37fps

[abrams_tank 7,426]

2 hours ago, z06z33 said:

I dont see how the FPS could get much better with the graphics we have honestly. Even my old GL702VS laptop runs jets at high settings at 37fps

Actually, the FPS can possibly get better with DirectX 12.  The miracle is that Asobo found a way to optimize MSFS and give everyone an nice boost in FPS with DirectX 11 in SU5.  That is not typical of most video games and software.  Normally, what optimizations can be done are usually done shortly after release.  The fact that Asobo found a way to optimize MSFS so much in SU5 is something I never expected.

From my understanding, if Asobo is willing to implement DLSS and optimize off of DLSS, Nvidia card users can see an even further boost in FPS, assuming the level of graphics stays the same and does not become more complex.  It will depend on whether Asobo is willing to look into DLSS since this is something that benefits Nvidia card users, and not AMD card users.

I'm sure there are other features of DirectX 12, if Asobo implements them, that can lead to an FPS increase.  Remember though that Asobo/Microsoft may also enhance the graphics further, because the MSFS community is asking for this.  So if the graphics become more complex, that could lead to a reduction in FPS.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by abrams_tank

[YoYo 374]

7 hours ago, Wothan said:

DX12 will probably not increase FPS, but the sim might run smoother.

 

Thats right. If we recived this I'll be happy.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,386]

8 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

From my understanding, DirectX 12 allows "lower level access" to the graphics card.  In software development terms, "lower level access" means the software developer has more control of how the hardware behaves, but the software developer also spends much more time writing the software, if they use low level calls.

For example, if you can write in assembly, you have precise control of every instruction sent to the CPU.  Nobody writes in assembly though because it takes forever to even do the most basic things.  Having said that, some games that need to be super optimized may do certain parts of their function calls in assembly.  But only a very small faction of calls.  If you write a modern game entirely in assembly like MSFS, it would take you probably thousands of years to complete it.  You'll be dead and the software development team will be dead before the game is even completed.

In the same way, DirectX 12 offers "lower level access" for game developers to the graphics card.  But game developers need to take the time to take advantage of it.

Also, I believe DLSS is something that DirectX 12 offers for Nvidia card users.  Asobo said they would look into DLSS (but they didn't promise they would implement it, probably because AMD card users won't benefit from it).

Actually, they said they don't think MSFS would benefit from it, from what they've seen so far, but they were still looking in to it.

[jimcarrel 688]

The biggest change (noticeable by more users) is the vram issue. If you run a 6gig card and less, you will be cramped with high settings. DX12 is intolerant of high vram settings. I had to lower settings in P3D 5 when it went to  DX12 when I was running a 6 gig card.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

8 hours ago, Afterburner said:

Will we have an option to continue using DX11, or will the use of DX12 be enforced?  My GPU only has 6 GB of Vram, which is just enough for most scenarios on high settings. As the general experience with P3Dv5 has shown, DX12 will likely increase the Vram usage and lead to out of memory errors if it's more than the GPU can handle. Does anyone know?

I had CTD's with 8 GB's of graphics RAM on my GTX1070, on the P3D DX12 initial release.   Cross your fingers with only 6GB's!

[Noel 4,509]

I think they are constrained to around 10Gb of VRAM dedicated as GPU accessible which is what Xbox Series X sports.  So under 10Gb could be dicey but as we all know there is a lot of adjustability while still having excellent visuals.  They are good at letting you get out of it whatever you can and still have decent performance.  Remarkable!

[Afterburner 374]

1 hour ago, Sesquashtoo said:

I had CTD's with 8 GB's of graphics RAM on my GTX1070, on the P3D DX12 initial release.   Cross your fingers with only 6GB's!

It's the Nvidia GTX 1660 Super with 6 GB Vram that I am using. Considering that I bought this card for only 219 € in August last year, while the current price is almost 500 €, I am very reluctant to consider an upgrade (which would be even more expensive), so I hope we will have the option to use DX11 for some time to come. MSFS and P3Dv4 with DX11 already leave a thin Vram margin under demanding conditions, but at least it doesn't OOM when there's a Vram overflow.

Thank you to those who confirmed that DX12 will be optional.

[rocketlaunch 615]

I think this is a major step forward as this should lead to ray tracing and dlss possibilities. Imagine it in VR! 

[fppilot 4,387]

16 hours ago, Silicus said:

It was mention by the developers before that it is unlikely to experience higher fps with DX12 (system depended).

What then will it provide for us?  An addition to the system specs in our Avsim message footers?  Better panel detail?  Less CTD's (after 45 days mine are beginning to surface again), more addon aircraft releases, more 3rd party avionics improvements? 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by fppilot

[turbomax 3,287]

15 hours ago, pstrub said:

DX12 is important in the long run because it lays the groundwork for the implementation of new features and further optimisations, I'm sure at some point the transition will pay off. Just don't get your hopes up right now.

precisely so.

DX12 is more than DX11, so it MUST perform better. Windows 11 is more than Windows 10. Intel Alder Lake Core i9-12900 has 1.700 pins and uses more power than i9-9900 (only 1.200 pins) , ergo more powerful. what is there not to understand? 😀

Edited October 29, 2021 by turbomax