8 minutes ago, Janov said:

Ohh, great, more MSFS footage from Noel! Who knows, keep it coming, you may convince me to try it eventually.... NOT 🤣

Now this is my first 'footage' per se the others were pretty postcards as you know.  You really haven't tried it MSFS?  Very wise on your part and I recommend you never do if you really want to stay committed to XP no matter what 😂.   

1 minute ago, Murmur said:

I find absolutely funny that @Noel is WASTING HOURS of his life to write long posts like the one above which are totally USELESS to convince anyone of us... 🤣

Don't know if he needs to convince himself instead, or what... 🤷‍♂️

I've enjoyed the heck out of all of it Murmer, and hope you have too, and besides when Sharp posted that bland video at MROC I couldn't resist.  It just looks artificial and old, is all.  I hope TrueEarth makes it to XP/P3D in massive scale that would tip the balance, but doesn't look like that will beat MSFS to maturity at this juncture, nor be affordable for that matter.

Do people who suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect know that they are suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect? No, they don't. Do you know why? Because they are suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect. And they don't even know it ...

But ... I don't blame them for it, it's not their fault - because ... they are suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect. Do they even know what is the Dunning-Kruger effect? With wikipedia it isn't this hard to check for it ...

But ... LOOOOOOOOOOK!!!! Begging to finally understand !!! 🤣 ... This photogrammetry looks soooo REAL ... so, the flight (?) simulator behind MUST be real ... *shaking my head*.

Edited December 22, 20214 yr by uwespeed

@Noel I feel for you, it is courageous to try convincing FS2020 is superior in graphics to an audience which is already convinced it is superior in graphics, but, only to certain aspects of the graphics. Like @Janov is telling in a post above, a nicely rendered hold short line is certainly nicely rendered, but useless if rendered the way it is in this video and actually it is showing FS2020 is not concerned with aeronautical authenticity.

I find this even more concerning not much because some would consider this a game, but more importantly because one of the goal they tried to sell the simmer community is that they're reaching a larger audience, breathing new bread in the genre, which is good for everyone. But I'm afraid if the first contact to aviation is FS2020, it will infuse a distorted and wrong image of the reality of aviation to this new audience, because there are still a lot of the things in FS2020 which are not meant to reproduce the reality of aviation, just the feeling of it.

Just to illustrate a few, which are not flight model related and where I know for example XP12 is targeting accuracy (and XP11 is already delivering a lot of it): wrong taxiway labels, wrong taxiway posts sizes (this is regulated, not just enlarged so that people can better read them on their 1K monitor), wrong runway and taxiway lighting (lacking directional and relative strength between each other - there is a reason this is regulated). I won't try to make an exhaustive list but these alone are indicating the level of "care to authenticity" and why some are considering FS2020 a game (albeit which can be used seriously and pretend representing reality) vs a simulator (which tries to recreate reality).

This doesn't remove anything from FS2020 own strengths as a game though, because it gives you a certain type of flying experience, but in their own words: "they want to recreate the aviator lifestyle", they didn't say: "they want to recreate how an aircraft is operated". This is pretty much the same business model as Forza (vs more realistic car simulators): a market place where you sell DLC liveries and cars, nice graphics and sounds, somewhat realistic driving feeling (but maybe not realistic simulation - although they are progressing in this department), and the impression or a feeling of car racing.

Having said this, I also believe it is moot to showcase FS2020 videos and asking what would be the equivalent with XP11, only because XP11 is the past already and won't give you satisfaction visually in my opinion. However XP12 might, but no one can share any of it with you yet because we're all under NDA (unlike FS2020, they didn't invite YouTuber first, and 3rd party vendors - some only - after the fact...).

To me FS2020 terrain rendering is technically superior right now, but synthetic generation has much more to offer in the long run. Because not only it is based on meta data which can therefore change over time easily, but more importantly, because you can render this data in any shape you want for any practical simulation purpose. And to illustrate what computer science can deliver in the future (near), here is a perfect example to me of what you can do today already: transforming crude meta data and information into photo-realistic rendering:

 

You can even dynamically change the "style"!
https://nvlabs.github.io/GANcraft/videos/interp_small.mp4

Here is the official presentation:
https://nvlabs.github.io/GANcraft/

And the source code if you want to "play" with it at home 🙂
https://github.com/NVlabs/imaginaire

PS: I recommend to visit the Github page, they have lots of different projects with "2 minutes" presentation videos, some of which leaving me speechless honestly.

 

Edited December 22, 20214 yr by RXP

1 hour ago, Murmur said:

WASTING HOURS

Pretty sure time getting that shot was measured in days..... then in the end there were no clouds (other than those baked into the ortho).

And also in the end he didnt have VR for that Holy Mary moment as you glance out of the side window at the ground a thousand feet below Or Xplane for the miniature cars driving on the roads.

 

Edited December 22, 20214 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

then in the end there were no clouds (other than those baked into the ortho)

Okay so you need some clouds--wasn't cloudy there so we didn't see much except in the distant horizon, and there are no 'baked into the ortho' clouds as you should know, but being one to never lose an opportunity to denigrate it was predicted, and creative too I must say.  Sure, we'll do one more video soon with some clouds & weather for you since you're a connoisseur of fine scenery/atmosphere/lighting, those nebulous but critically important parts of a fully featured flight simulator.

Feel free to publish another video from anywhere with some weather in it and we can see how it is.  ActiveSky for P3D was fine for what it was, but of course only extended a limited distance towards the horizon which was leftover presumably from FSX,and was very limited in many ways.  MSFS clouds and weather are also very organic and don't derive from fixed sprites planted here and there they are much more dynamic.  But they absolutely need work no argument there.

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by Noel

Noel, maybe  start another thread?

and really, i am on Linux and not interested. To  remind  you, the subject of this thread is about thé new clouds in XP12. That’s why I return when somebody posts  a reply . Not to read too long an update why MSFS scenery is so much better, everyone (except maybe mSparks) knows that already. 

2 hours ago, Noel said:

and there are no 'baked into the ortho' clouds as you should know

Well, I heard there wasn't. But then you posted:

I might do a bit of a VR tour around MROC to show you what it looks like up close and personal with Ortho loaded rather than pure default.

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by mSparks

Nay, nay, and thrice nay, soaring_penguin and moderators. Let us have a change in moderator tactics and cease terminating every thread when it goes wildly off-topic for the usual, entirely predictable reason (MSFS v XP).

Please allow this particular one to run for as long as decently possible - hopefully until XP12 is released, when one side or the other may be able to say: "I told you so". It may also help to keep the usual untamed ferrets inside one easily accessible sack -  and it's actually quite entertaining (unless you take any of the comments too seriously and get upset enough to join the fray. Oh dear, I may have just done that...)

36 minutes ago, soaring_penguin said:

except maybe mSparks) knows that already. 

Because its not the scenery that is "better" just its lighting.

 

5 hours ago, RXP said:

@Noel I feel for you, it is courageous to try convincing FS2020 is superior in graphics to an audience which is already convinced it is superior in graphics

As mentioned--I'm only responding to Spark's various trigger comments because as has been noted he tends to be contrarian to the audience on that very point, is my take..  He's having every bit as much fun as I am, and really--it's all in good spirit and fun.  I love to hear why people see things the way they because I know we are not all programmed the same way and it's not a bad thing it just is.  Any of us are free to try or use whatever we wish in the way of flight simulators.   I know many who came from FSX/P3D were caught up in what parts MSFS does very well, and then tried with various success to cope with its deficiencies.  Many stay as myself, some went back to P3D, and some to XP, but I sense far more stuck w/ it because what it does well it does very well.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Spark's various trigger comments because as has been noted he tends to be contrarian to the audience on that very point

It can be fun if someone takes the opposite point just for an arguments sake. If the point is such an outlier (the world is flat, the sun is cold, XP11 has better graphics than MSFS2020) it just becomes uncomfortable to watch... my kids call that cringe.

You can go back through mSparks posting history over the last year(s) and you will see that you will not win this argument. Not any argument with him, for that matter. So save yourself the trouble and if you have to, please take your screenshots and movies to a PM with mSparks, you are just getting on everyone else´s nerves trying to persuade us of something that we already believe 🙄.

We have been trying to be accomodating. You (maybe) have no idea what would happen if I went over to the MSFS forum and posted some XP11 videos? 🤣

1 hour ago, Noel said:

various trigger comments because as has been noted he tends to be contrarian to the audience on that very point,

I tend to trigger people because I think a lot further ahead than most people. "Average" folk think ahead in days and weeks - if at all. My day job is to think in years and decades.

50 years from now is a fairly normal day in the office for me, but even the mention of 50 years from now makes the vast majority of people very uncomfortable for obvious reasons, their absolute natural reaction is "you cant possibly know that and it doesnt matter anyway".

But it does matter and these things need estimating. Commissioning a nuclear power station, Hospital or Skyscraper is a 100 year+ decision, building a decent flight sim is more than a lifes work.

Doesnt mean I am always right, and I will admit and post mortem when I am wrong. E.g. @Janov was right about not needing to fix XP11s completely borken lighting because he already had XP12 on his machine while the rest of us had doubts we would even see teasers or sneak peeks this year.

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by mSparks

23 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I tend to trigger people because I think a lot further ahead than most people. "Average" folk think ahead in days and weeks - if at all. My day job is to think in years and decades.

50 years from now is a fairly normal day in the office for me, but even the mention of 50 years from now makes the vast majority of people very uncomfortable for obvious reasons, their absolute natural reaction is "you cant possibly know that and it doesnt matter anyway".

But it does matter and these things need estimating. Commissioning a nuclear power station, Hospital or Skyscraper is a 100 year+ decision, building a decent flight sim is more than a lifes work.

Doesnt mean I am always right, and I will admit and post mortem when I am wrong. E.g. @Janov was right about not needing to fix XP11s completely borken lighting because he already had XP12 on his machine while the rest of us had doubts we would even see teasers or sneak peeks this year.

If you can see so far ahead, than you would realise by now, that with no coal and oil, diminishing electricity and scarce resources, we probably wont be simming in 5 years from now or flying at all.

 

But I could be wrong...

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by mjrhealth

33 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

If you can see so far ahead, than you would realise by now, that with no coal and oil, diminishing electricity and scarce resources, we probably wont be simming in 5 years from now or flying at all.

Off topic: The West is almost certainly absolutely lost. Known that for a long while. That's why I am expat, and have been now for nearly a decade. 

On topic; Its pretty much exactly the same science that gives you PROB40 in TAFs, just people and finance are much more predictable than the weather and clouds, given similar information.

Edited December 23, 20214 yr by mSparks