5 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Yet its been explained repeatedly and ad nauseum why all users have to be on the same version for an internet-dependent title such as this.

I get the same thing on star citizen and any number of other titles with heavy streaming.

No doubt about all users need to be in the same version for an online game like this one.

What can be changed is to make only as Mandatory those updates/changes related to the core sim, and leaving all the rest as eligible Content that everybody could download as needed. This will also help in reducing the size of the updates (the mandatory ones).

35 minutes ago, pmb said:

Yes, and I believe them. However, this still requires strict quality control. It doesn't help if they fix 10 issues and introduce 10 new ones.

Kind regards, Michael

This is not only an issue of QC or rather the lack thereof. It is also what I would call "update fatigue". Their incessant tweaking of graphic and UI and whatnot  with often non apparent benefit makes playing the sim a little less fun than it should be. And this, once a month for a week ! . Lets face it, we buy a sim, and make no mistake I find it a good sim, for having the joy of flying not of perpetually adapting  to it. 

I am all for a couple of well thought and crafted updates a year which add value, even paying DLC but this is getting a little too hectic. 

As I said in the first post, leave us alone playing in the sandbox for a while. 

As these are the days of the hashtags, here are some 🤣

#WeAreNotGuineaPigs #StopTheUpdates #LeaveUsAlone #DontTouchMySim

Just kiddin'

 

Just now, edpatino said:

What can be changed is to make only as Mandatory those updates/changes related to the core sim, and leaving all the rest as eligible Content that everybody could download as needed. This will also help in reducing the size of the updates (the mandatory ones).

I may be misunderstanding, as I thought that was already pretty much the case.

You install the mandatory stuff as the main update to the core files, then the (mostly) non-mandatory stuff in content manager....

Or at least that's my understanding.

5 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

You install the mandatory stuff as the main update to the core files, then the (mostly) non-mandatory stuff in content manager....

Or at least that's my understanding.

That's correct. Sorry for the confusion.

1 minute ago, edpatino said:

That's correct. Sorry for the confusion.

 SU7 was an all-included mandatory package (core, aircraft, sceneries) as acknowledged by an official forum mod. 

For future updates, make sceneries and aircraft optional - Self-Service / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Zurich Airport alone was 5 GB out of my 25.45 GB to download

11 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I am all for a couple of well thought and crafted updates a year which add value, even paying DLC but this is getting a little too hectic. 

As I said in the first post, leave us alone playing in the sandbox for a while. 

Agreed, slowing the pace down will help, and I'm sure Jorg himself acknowledged this in a previous Q&A...

Also, the WUs will no longer include core code changes, so they will just be mainly scenery add-ons.

We will have to wait for a roadmap in the new year, but I was definitely getting the impression that the plan is to slow down, starting with the imminent focus on bug fixing for the next update, rather than new features.

I would prefer patch cycles to be much further apart.  How many people in this thread have actually contributed to MSFS by creating an addon?  I've done several liveries and frankly, almost every other SU they are broken.  Literally for a while there, the dollar sign had to be removed or added in a cfg.  I'm not sure if Asobo introduced old code or what but it gets annoying.

I can't imagine what serious devs have to go through.  

Maybe every 6 months do a large, well tested update or something.

Just now, March Hare said:

Agreed, slowing the pace down will help, and I'm sure Jorg himself acknowledged this in a previous Q&A...

Also, the WUs will no longer include core code changes, so they will just be mainly scenery add-ons.

We will have to wait for a roadmap in the new year, but I was definitely getting the impression that the plan is to slow down, starting with the imminent focus on bug fixing for the next update, rather than new features.

The slowdown is inevitable anyway  as sales decelerate, pure profit logic brings to cut costs. 

I see that having regular updates is part of their strategy and it does make sense I guess since they have to keep people interested and attract new customers, but they need to get their act together when it comes to quality control. I think that’s the biggest problem. Just schedule 1-2 weeks more to test and fix the release candidate and I‘m sure at least the most annoying issues could be avoided.

8 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

SU7 was an all-included mandatory package (core, aircraft, sceneries) as acknowledged by an official forum mod. 

This is exactly what I think it should be changed. No need to make that content as Mandatory. I for example have the Lugano airport purchased from a third party developer which is very good and don't see a single reason why I have to download the same airport now from Asobo and to delete it afterwards.

I haven't updated to SU7 yet and according to the number of critical issues already reported by most of the users in this forum and in the MS Forums as well, I'd rather wait for next week hoping that an official hotfix (or several) is released.

In the meantime, a short layoff is always good, to get some peace of mind.

Edited November 19, 20214 yr by edpatino

6 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

I see that having regular updates is part of their strategy and it does make sense I guess since they have to keep people interested and attract new customers, but they need to get their act together when it comes to quality control. I think that’s the biggest problem. Just schedule 1-2 weeks more to test and fix the release candidate and I‘m sure at least the most annoying issues could be avoided.

My conjecture is that the lack of QC is not a problem, it is a policy. Neuman and Asobo have sold to MS corporate an insane planning to keep the product in the news that contractually ties them up now. QC would hinder the whole thing.

Edited November 19, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

18 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Zurich Airport alone was 5 GB out of my 25.45 GB to download

I think part of this might be due to our various internet speeds and/or caps (If any)

At my average of 60mbs download, that 5 gigabytes equates to maybe about 10 minutes of time. In other words, hardly noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

At this point, my download cap is about 2 terabytes per month, which I never get anywhere near, so again, barely an inconvenience.

Other peoples milage may of course vary, but the conclusion for me is that unless there's a massive slowdown going on, the downloads are not really that much of an issue.

50 minutes ago, edpatino said:

No doubt about all users need to be in the same version for an online game like this one.

What can be changed is to make only as Mandatory those updates/changes related to the core sim, and leaving all the rest as eligible Content that everybody could download as needed. This will also help in reducing the size of the updates (the mandatory ones).

Civilisation series does exactly what you mentioned. 

1 minute ago, HiFlyer said:

 my download cap is about 2 terabytes per month, 

My 4G cap is 200 GB, and I was very happy because the download  took only  2.5 hours. Not minding the time but the fact that I will bust the cap specially if I want to get some 3PD products because MS imposed on me "gifts" I can do without. 

But this is a side issue to the thread. 

5 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

I wonder whether MSFS is our toy or the Asobo engineers toy. They tweak, tweak, tweak what MS  sold us without our consentment, making the result mandatory. They remind me of the French bureaucrats inventing new rules all the time to legitimate their existence.

I was annoyed by P3D constant updates and HF. MS has brought this mania to new heights.

The kid in me says : Couldn’t you let us play alone in our sandbox  for a while 🤣 ? 

Dominique-

I seldom find myself in disagreement with you, however, this time I would gently ask you to remember our collective experiences with FS- from SubLogic through MSFS. We have consistently clamored for active development.  We have spent decades bemoaning sporadic attention coupled with years of inattention. We have begged for consistent and dedicated sim engineering.

Now we have all of this.  I will admit the growing pains are sharp.  As Ryan well pointed out, if you are a developer in this arena the pains are acute.  Can you imagine what companies like PMDG are going through whilst the sim changes basic precepts every few weeks?  We experience angst without the burdens of maintaining a payroll, and still feel it enough to complain...

Change is difficult and I fully understand your frustration first hand.  I am not so frustrated however, to ask Asobo or MS to slow their progress.  If you remember, I previously asked for a moment's respite to dedicate time to bug smashing.  In SU6 and SU7 they appear to have heard.  Unfortunately SU7 has brought about it's share of issues.  QC is undoubtedly the production team's Achilles' Heel and hopefully the team is aware and responsive to this critical and prominent issue.

I keep telling myself that patience is a virtue, and progress towards the goal is good (even if painful occasionally). That said, I am hugely grateful I am not a MSFS developer at the moment as the burdens placed on that particular segment are indeed voluminous.

Keep the faith mon ami- C