3 hours ago, pmb said:

I paid full 200$ for every version, including for Prepar3d5.

I just re-installed Prepar3d5.3 a few days ago and fired it up for a short flight around the San Franciso area (with that ORBX reddish TrueEarth) yesterday. But no, I'm not going back, after knowing what's possible today.

Ditto on both points. P3D always felt an expensive option for what you got with the major new releases, but I just assumed that was part of their original licensing deal, and as ever, it was my choice. Always did feel people getting a bit high and mighty about P3D's good or bad points but still taking only the acedemic license was a bit rich, but there you go.

I also just did a clean install of 5.3 and was pleasantly surprised by the performance of it. I actually feel I will keep it on my system, re-instate some of my massive library of aircraft and scenery and use it on occasion now. If I don't look too closely at the ground down there it's quite impressive now with True Earth, Env-xxx and the enhanced atmospherics (EA) turned on. I was getting 50-60 fps if I let it run uncapped and it was quite smooth. Still only rates maybe 3/10 for me now, with XP at maybe 4/10, but MSFS stays at the top with 9/10 with a bullet (as the DJs used to say). I also won't be going back on any serious basis, but it's good to feel it's no longer a complete write off for me. I may finally remove v4 fully though.

8 minutes ago, andy1252 said:

I also just did a clean install of 5.3 and was pleasantly surprised by the performance of it.

Not to deviate into a P3D discussion*, but I agree once more, performance is indeed improved, even when using EA (as long as car traffic is off).

Actually, I am pretty excited how my 5-years old (non-OC'd!) system handles all the present sims, with a few concessions even under VR. 

Kind regards, Michael

*I promise, this will be my last note on P3D in this thread.😉

@pmb it would be like driving my 83 Honda CIvic again. Lol

bs

1 hour ago, bean_sprout said:

@pmb it would be like driving my 83 Honda CIvic again. Lol

bs

Well due to once again strange weather in two MSFS attempts today (icing in clear weather and unrealistic winds aloft), I reverted and flew a mostly IFR-on-top pair of flights in the Realair TDv2 with AS16 and easily witnessed that nothing in MSFS holds to those standard yet.  I saw two sides of live weather today.  Caused me to think of Joni Mitchell.

Don't get me wrong.  I have logged 183 out of 200 hours since July 1st this year in MSFS.  But it is what it is, and ever changing!  And is some respects ever challenging.

 

On 12/8/2021 at 3:56 AM, sd_flyer said:

 Venting out here doesn't change anything! 

of course it does.

It's bad publicity on a major flight sim forum. If enough folk "Vent" it will eventually have an impact on the bottom line.

This modern era of over weening deference and cringing supplication to the major suppliers of techno (in particular) really does **** me and others off. There used to be a time when the phrase "The Customer is always Right" meant something. Microsoft and Asobo are commercial operations, we pay, they supply......it is a contractual agreement. It is not done to satisfy humanitarian ideals so there is no need to tug your forelock every time they decide to address a customer raised issue. 

The power balance between customer and supplier has changed over the last 30 years or so and not for the better. Shoddy products that don't hit the nail on the head are common place.........and we're supposed to be grateful for any crumbs they let drop??? The assumption is that our money is theirs before they've even earned it.

The software is full of bugs many of which are not being addressed and show no sign of ever being addressed. This software (I'll not call it a simulator) is surviving on good looks alone and I learnt  as a young man many moons ago that relationships based on good looks alone did not last long 😉  

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by GaryK
grammar

2 hours ago, GaryK said:

of course it does.

Of course it does. Venting and whining will drive potential customers away from that named software (which you don't want to call a simulator) cutting resources for bug fighting and further development  by the main developer as well as 3PDs.

Not sure about you, but that's definitely not what I want.

Kind regards, Michael

Edited December 9, 20214 yr by pmb

1 hour ago, pmb said:

Of course it does. Venting and whining will drive potential customers away from that named software (which you don't want to all a simulator) cutting resources for bug fighting and further development  by the main developer as well as 3PDs.

Not sure about you, but that's definitely not what I want.

Kind regards, Michael

With all due respect to you, your view on this subject and forum harmony. You are undoubtedly a good and very capable man......but (you knew that was coming didn't you😉).....your view on this is not just part of the problem, it is at the core of the problem.

2 hours ago, pmb said:

Of course it does. Venting and whining will drive potential customers away from that named software (which you don't want to call a simulator) cutting resources for bug fighting and further development  by the main developer as well as 3PDs.

Not sure about you, but that's definitely not what I want.

Kind regards, Michael

Or maybe they realise that there needs to be a change in their attitude and they will devote resorces to a fix.   Or do you think they stopped Windows Me just because it was the right thing to do? 

5 hours ago, GaryK said:

of course it does.

It's bad publicity on a major flight sim forum. If enough folk "Vent" it will eventually have an impact on the bottom line.
 

We are here for MSFS to succeed - not to make bad publicity Gary! We want Asobo to do things better, not to create word not allowed show self indulging ego tripped customers. Simmer are different breed!

5 hours ago, GaryK said:

It's bad publicity on a major flight sim forum. 

Avsim is a tiny blip on the flight sim radar of Asobo and Microsoft. It's a nice little pond, but still a little pond. 

5 hours ago, GaryK said:

The software is full of bugs many of which are not being addressed and show no sign of ever being addressed.

Please enlighten us as to the 'full of bugs' list now please.  One at a time, enumerate and define them, so we're in agreement on this very basic premise.  Then we can evaluate the 2nd part of these statements, that they 'show no sign of ever being address.' 

Somehow, despite this 'full of bugs' I'm able to....

1. Create a complex flight plan, using the 787-10's (and all other default planes I use) FMC to follow a complex route waypoint by waypoint, using LNAV and VNAV, and have a flawless descent into myriad airports with sloped runways, using all forms of approaches including ILS, RNAV, visual DME etc.  
2. Performance will be spectacularly excellent the entire way right on thru taxi to the arrival gate.
3. Full control over graphical complexity is provided allowing me to use my hardware optimally.
4. CTD rarely occur, freezes once or twice in well over 1400h of use.
5. Since initial install I needed to format and resintall Win 10 and MSFS.  This occurred flawlessly, with virtually one-click installation allowing me to start the install and leave it to complete on its own.
6. Various large bugs and omissions (missing Nav lights on aircraft, for example), the recent temperature bug, loss of frame rate on final approach, and a few more have all been resolved.
7. I continue to use Aerosoft's SimpleTraffic which works well as does Bejan's seasons, and the Heavy Division mod for the 787-10, despite SU's post installation of these.
8. ATC actually gets 90% of everything right, and is aware of AI traffic involved.
9. That ATC, weather, and the SDK are still lacking does not support the statement, 'full of bugs'.  These are areas in need of further development. 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Please enlighten us as to the 'full of bugs' list now please.  One at a time, enumerate and define them, so we're in agreement on this very basic premise.  Then we can evaluate the 2nd part of these statements, that they 'show no sign of ever being address.' 

Somehow, despite this 'full of bugs' I'm able to....

1. Create a complex flight plan, using the 787-10's (and all other default planes I use) FMC to follow a complex route waypoint by waypoint, using LNAV and VNAV, and have a flawless descent into myriad airports with sloped runways, using all forms of approaches including ILS, RNAV, visual DME etc.  
2. Performance will be spectacularly excellent the entire way right on thru taxi to the arrival gate.
3. Full control over graphical complexity is provided allowing me to use my hardware optimally.
4. CTD rarely occur, freezes once or twice in well over 1400h of use.
5. Since initial install I needed to format and resintall Win 10 and MSFS.  This occurred flawlessly, with virtually one-click installation allowing me to start the install and leave it to complete on its own.
6. Various large bugs and omissions (missing Nav lights on aircraft, for example), the recent temperature bug, loss of frame rate on final approach, and a few more have all been resolved.
7. I continue to use Aerosoft's SimpleTraffic which works well as does Bejan's seasons, and the Heavy Division mod for the 787-10, despite SU's post installation of these.
8. ATC actually gets 90% of everything right, and is aware of AI traffic involved.
9. That ATC, weather, and the SDK are still lacking does not support the statement, 'full of bugs'.  These are areas in need of further development. 

You must be a very happy Chap then. You're certainly getting your monies worth out of the game. Well done😂

10 minutes ago, GaryK said:

You must be a very happy Chap then. You're certainly getting your monies worth out of the game.

I didn't think you could enumerate the 'full of bugs' BS you presented. 🙃

6 hours ago, GaryK said:

your view on this is not just part of the problem, it is at the core of the problem

You believe the people who brought MSFS to the place where it is today, the place that allows users to do exactly what I described here https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/611549-msfs-maybe-should-fix-something/?do=findComment&comment=4681794 every day and 3x on Sunday, requires regular exclusively negative feedback from people like yourself in order to move the product forward.   I find that laughable.  Every one of these generalized, exclusively negative comments absolutely impact the bottom line by influencing followers who also don't see the big picture, to join in and try their best to add to this basket of negativity.  This is group-think it works very well and while you think MS/A is finding any of this useful I think you're lost in your own hubris.  This most this does indeed is trash the sim on game rating sites.  Why?  Because it's flatly hugely unbalanced and gives folks who don't know a very skewed impression before they ever take the plunge.  

You don't bring a product this far, and not look at everything you're doing to get here and decide where to go next, learning from not only their own internal analysis of MSFS' current state, their well-organized forum and zen desk system, but as well professional feedback from stakeholders like RR from PMDG.  They've hired Working Title to advance flight planning and ATC.  They've announced stability as a goal supported by separation of WUs and SUs, starting in Feb 2022.  

If I were working on the front lines to develop a world class innovative product like MSFS I would find it hard to listen to repeated, unbalanced, exclusively negative feedback, and still be driven towards perfection.  When you are attempting to simulate reality, it's very easy for observers to pinpoint deviations from perfection, and yet they have to always fully consider performance and monetary budgets as they move the product along.  There is so much more right with MSFS, than there is fundamentally wrong.   It's one thing to be a direct part of the solution by submitting targeted, well thought out feedback via zen desk, wishlist, and discussion topic submissions, and quite another to present go into these generalized bashings.  Make yourself useful, get off your pontificating horse and submit some well thougth thru tickets and votes.  Here, you're just another troll trying to stir up negatively--Asobo can't use one bit of your posting above.

I'm sure you're a fine fellow, (I bet you didn't know that was coming 😆), but you've done less than nothing to advance the simulator, you know the one that lets you do this https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/611549-msfs-maybe-should-fix-something/?do=findComment&comment=4681794

Cheers, and happy flying 

 

1 hour ago, GaryK said:

You must be a very happy Chap then. You're certainly getting your monies worth out of the game. Well done😂

I do, too. I much enjoyed it over the alpha already, despite I had to deliver a number of Zendesk reports. If I compare the flying hours/sim cost ratio, it's a multiple over all simulators I used over the last 30 years (usually at a ~2-years pace). Despite a few niggles, which, however, the other sims sported, too.

I fly nearly every other day (mostly under VR), but I don't recall my last CTD. Must have been months ago. 

Kind regards, Michael