32 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

Really bored of these threads.

What would you prefer, a sim being actively worked on month by month? Or 14 years of silence from a closed studio?

1/ 14-year stagnation ? MS closed the FSX shop in 2009 and P3D took over in 2010 but really slowly brought new stuff to the franchise with P3DV2 around 2012.  

2/ During these days of "stagnation", we have seen the explosion of  top-tier products from OrbX, A2A, Milviz, PMDG and so on and so forth because of the platform stability.

 3/ What does "actively worked" mean  ? Can one say that the 7 sim updates in 15 months  we had to hard swallow since release have any significantly improved the sim for the simmer ?  Between a complete freeze and the Brownian motion that MS imposes on us, there is a  wide gap.  

Edited December 8, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

28 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

Really bored of these threads.

What would you prefer, a sim being actively worked on month by month? Or 14 years of silence from a closed studio?

Really bored of these types of responses. 

40 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

Really bored of these threads.

What would you prefer, a sim being actively worked on month by month? Or 14 years of silence from a closed studio?

It's a bit of a straw man argument Rudiii. You are trying to polarise the argument and I see this all the time. It is pointless. 

It is quite obvious a lot of people just would like something in the middle, and mainly stable! 

31 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

1/ 14-year stagnation ? MS closed the FSX shop in 2009 and P3D took over in 2010 but really slowly brought new stuff to the franchise with P3DV2 around 2012.  

2/ During these days of "stagnation", we have seen the explosion of  top-tier products from OrbX, A2A, Milviz, PMDG and so on and so forth because of the platform stability.

 3/ What does "actively worked" mean  ? Can one say that the 7 sim updates in 15 months  we had to hard swallow since release have any significantly improved the sim for the simmer ?  Between a complete freeze and the Brownian motion that MS imposes on us, there is a  wide gap.  

The market is the healthiest it's been in a long time. From hardware to sales records. I think this is undeniable. 

It's not perfect, but I'm happy we have it, plus the commitment to make it better and a clear timeline for it's support. I think the daily "pun title about how word-not-allowed Asobo are" just takes away from the clear progress being made in our hobby/this industry. 

19 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Really bored of these types of responses. 

Sorry. Happy to listen to your reasoning.

7 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

It's a bit of a straw man argument Rudiii. You are trying to polarise the argument and I see this all the time. It is pointless. 

It is quite obvious a lot of people just would like something in the middle, and mainly stable! 

You are probably right, we all want the best for the sim. It's just so many of these threads and much of the discussion I see, you'd think Asobo had made a personal sleight against some people.

As opposed to the reality of sales records being broken for software, first and third party along with whole new companies with whole new products from software to hardware.

The entire industry has had a preverbal kick up the word-not-allowed, but you wouldn't think so reading here.

 

1 minute ago, Rudiii said:

The market is the healthiest it's been in a long time. From hardware to sales records. I think this is undeniable. 

It's not perfect, but I'm happy we have it, plus the commitment to make it better and a clear timeline for it's support. I think the daily "pun title about how word-not-allowed Asobo are" just takes away from the clear progress being made in our hobby/this industry. 

The sim has brought a lot of fresh air and innovation. It is a great product which has revived a sleeping hobby. Agreed.

It is perfectly clear now for a lot  of us here that Asobo is not the source of our predicaments but the insane MS marketing policy for the product. Who has ever seen one update a month for any game ? 

My belief is that Asobo is a great team that could really transform flight simulation if MS would let them work at a more moderate pace. It is sad that they can’t,

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

The sim has brought a lot of fresh air and innovation. It is a great product which has revived a sleeping hobby. Agreed.

It is perfectly clear now for a lot  of us here that Asobo is not the source of our predicaments but the insane MS marketing policy for the product. Who has ever seen one update a month for any game ? 

My belief is that Asobo is a great team that could really transform flight simulation if MS would let them work at a more moderate pace. It is sad that they can’t,

I love what your saying, I’m old enough to wish I was around for a lot longer, we have come so far, I’m sick to death of the moaning and whinging, I love where we are at.

Cheers from a Happy Western Australian

Regards Brian

BJ from Oz 

9 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

The sim has brought a lot of fresh air and innovation. It is a great product which has revived a sleeping hobby. Agreed.

It is perfectly clear now for a lot  of us here that Asobo is not the source of our predicaments but the insane MS marketing policy for the product. Who has ever seen one update a month for any game ? 

My belief is that Asobo is a great team that could really transform flight simulation if MS would let them work at a more moderate pace. It is sad that they can’t,

I think you are probably on the money when you say 'let them work at a pace' and such.

The gaming industry is definitely a different beast to what it once was.

Day one patches and monthly patches are becoming scarily common.

I'm just thanking my lucky stars that things are not as bad as the Forza Horizon 5 launch on PC!

25 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

 Who has ever seen one update a month for any game ? 

My belief is that Asobo is a great team that could really transform flight simulation if MS would let them work at a more moderate pace. It is sad that they can’t,

Over in the world of combat flight sims the IL2 Sturmovik team are about to bring out two updates before Christmas.

One a month updates are not unusual for them but interestingly their publisher allows the development team to choose when and what they release.

 I agree that Asobo are being placed in an impossible position by Microsoft.

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

MS closed the FSX shop in 2009 and P3D took over in 2010 but really slowly brought new stuff to the franchise with P3DV2 around 2012. 

Let's focus on what 'slowly' and 'new stuff' really meant for the franchise.  Unless you misrepresented yourself and bought the academic license, which would have been a clear breach of their EULA for the vast majority of users, you coughed up $200 a pop to go from v1 to v2, another $200 for v3, another $200 for v4, and another $200 for v5.  During that entire time, you got exactly zero default aircraft that were worth the time to load them in a flight plan.  Next, they removed FSX's live weather.  In v2 you got actual light reflections on autogen.  In v3 you got 'performance enhancements' and perhaps an 'avatar' (🤣).  V4 finally addressed OOMs that plagued many users for years.  The hideous map in the FSX flight planner never did change throughout v1-v4 and I got off the boat after v4 and saved myself another $200.  ATC never changed at all.  The quality of default airports and scenery never changed meaningfully so users coughed another $1500 to make P3D half decent visually--but then performance really suffered when you loaded all of that up.  Even with my latest build I ended up turning most settings way down and disabling Orbx regionals to be able to fly the NGX into KSFO and maintain liquid smooth vsync to 30Hz--had to have a 30Hz screen because you couldn't do this in-sim as we can now in MSFS.   Weather went out a maximum of 110m, and remained 2D sprit- based until v5, after which users learned the new EA cloud system didn't work well and most disabled it for I don't know how long.  Plus, v5 brought in DX-12 which became a problematic for its heavy VRAM dependency.  

Quite frankly I am way too old to watch another rollout of a flight simulator on the sort of snail-paced development we had in P3D.  When almost nothing changes it's very easy to have relative stability with each version release, save v4 at least where there was actually something meaningful for your $200 upgrade.  But even then stability was no better in it than in MSFS, ultimately.  That the core P3D offered almost nothing but a stable base for 3rd party content, installation became a veritable multiday process with myriad installers and configuration for each and every addon.

People lose sight of these realities when they compare the shortcomings of MSFS.  Here's the reality of MSFS, even today:

1.  Despite periodic modest setbacks, the simulator has been almost always flyable--truly.  I know I have hardly missed a day since initial release.  

2.  Default scenery, airports, lighting and atmospherics have been revolutionary--you're now taking all of this for granted, for all of your $119 if you bought the Premium version.  And we should remember intial default scenery has been enhanced greatly thru World Updates, all for zero cost to the end user. 

3. Performance has been nothing short of spectacular, and became remarkably better in SU5 and persist today.  The addition of a couple of key features in SU6 helped the hardware-endowed exploit more of their capabilties.

4. At the behest of the community early attempts at integrating METAR and MeteoBlue weather began.  This, and the optional DX-12 intial release, created a rash of comments just like the one at the top of this thread.  Would you rather have coughed up $200 and had MS/A role this out say in 2023 when they got it just perfect?  Oh sure, sounds great!  Not!

Quite frankly compared to what rolled out of Asobo in Aug 2020 and continues to move forward, P3D was relative stagnation, especially for desktop users.  Perhaps for commercial users that is less the case.

All in all, MSFS has been a smashing success in the flight sim world.   Despite the fits and starts have, almost always, still let users fly and enjoy, even recently needing to temporarily user weather pre-sets instead of Live Weather, or fly below the radar, to cope w/ the silly temp bug.

The Maybe-Should-Fix-Something orientation completely ignores what is very right in MSFS even today--and it's a massive amount, much of which now seems to be taken for granted by those who yet again, start another MS/A bashing thread, and that is exactly what this thread is--and is very old, and repeated incessantly by a few here. 

Thank you @Noel. I've followed all Prepar3d development from day 1. And yes, I paid full 200$ for every version, including for Prepar3d5.

I just re-installed Prepar3d5.3 a few days ago and fired it up for a short flight around the San Franciso area (with that ORBX reddish TrueEarth) yesterday. But no, I'm not going back, after knowing what's possible today.

As a sidenote, QA even at a large military supplier is far from perfect. I loose 30 % fps with just minor car traffic (confirmed by other users).

In no way do I want to point at LM for this, but these beasts are hard to tame. All of them.

Kind regards, Michael

Edited December 8, 20214 yr by pmb

As I decided to launch MSFS a few minutes ago, I marvel again here sitting at the gate as KSEA, at just how remarkable default is in MSFS (credit to HD for modding the default 787-10 a wee bit, starting with a complete package and making some nice fine detail improvements, thanks HD).   I could only dream about KSEA in FSX, then P3D, let alone in something like this default Dreamliner.  I guarantee you this flight will go well all the way to KSFO, following all waypoints correctly and locking in the approach procedure just as the NGXu would have done in P3D.  Now, w/ the initial stab at METAR integration, I can look at ground wind at KSFO thru LNM and 90% of the time ATC will route me to the runway best suited for local winds there--so I can start my own descent and approach procedure before ATC gets to it and have it match. 

Here's just a few looks at one of a zillion airports and scenarios--just marvel at the performance here--it's pure magic I don't know how they've done this!   Go ahead, take this for granted and then start another rant thread about how it's all not perfect yet, like P3D is 12 years later 😂

3 hours ago, Rudiii said:

Really bored of these threads.

What would you prefer, a sim being actively worked on month by month? Or 14 years of silence from a closed studio?

At this point... I'd prefer updates to be much sparser.  This is the reason the big devs aren't onboard yet.  It's like hitting a moving target while riding a unicycle.  And the only experience I've had is doing liveries which sometimes need to be updated after each SU.  I rarely have the time to update them too.  I know people are complaining about our Rotax 915is vl3 mod...yeah it has issues...but frankly I don't have time to keep up with that.

Im not at all surprised why PMDG announced their delay (yet again) of the 737.

39 minutes ago, pmb said:

As a sidenote, QA even at a large military supplier is far from perfect. I loose 30 % fps with just minor car traffic (confirmed by other users).

Did they fix the herky jerky car traffic in v5.3?  Or how about the stuttering SODE jetways?  I remember in v4.5 when I turned on PBR lighting in the upper panel in the NGXu GPU load went up about 20% so we had to be real careful about that one!

7 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

At this point... I'd prefer updates to be much sparser.  This is the reason the big devs aren't onboard yet.

Yes we need to mimic the big devs:  patience is what is required at this point.  MS/A has said separation of WU's from SU's is coming very soon, bug fixes come next in SU8, and stability is a priority going forward now.  All of these are important precursors to the big devs coming on board.  In the meantime, the community has made some nice enhancements to default aircraft and the arrival of PMDG and others is something to look forward to in 2022.

And here we arrive at KSFO, another perfect flight, avionics all working just fine, to a safe landing in beautiful default KSFO, once again with unbelievably good performance.  The nicely HD modded 787-10 does a good part of what the PMDG 737 will do but didn't cost a nickel beyond the initial cost of the Premium Edition of MSFS--didn't say it was comparable, but what I said is 1000% correct.  Moreover, 90% of what NGXu's FMC interfaces did were configuration settings you set once and never looked at again.