2 hours ago, mtr75 said:

Not for nothing, but I've got an idea

Not for nothing, but I've got an idea: How about releasing software that is mature and thoroughly thested. And contains the features you promised like the lvar lists for your promised great hardware support. With a functioning autopilot and the great systems modelling you said it will have. And where flicking default hardware switches like the generator are actually reflected in the appropriate action in the sim. Or with a working HSI. Or an undockable GPS like in every other dang plane on the market for fs2020. Even the default ones. I know it sounds silly. But would that not be a great idea to do that before you try to get money from your victi... err customers. Not that piece of banana ware that it is right now.

You cannot tell me they did not know. And if they'd had marketed it as "early access" or whatever bugridden alphas are marketed as I'd have understood. But they did not. This is the product. Nowhere in the announcements did it say it is not feature complete. How can anyone approve of that. They will not accept you just paying part of the money for it you know. But you gladly accept getting only part of the product.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by Deimos

I'd be interested to see the PC specs of Xbox detractors. It's quite surprising how far they have come on and how close the components are to off-the-shelf PC parts. I was surprised to find my own PC is in the same range as the Series X.

4 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

I'd be interested to see the PC specs of Xbox detractors. It's quite surprising how far they have come on and how close the components are to off-the-shelf PC parts. I was surprised to find my own PC is in the same range as the Series X.

XBOX BAD, PC GOOD

2 hours ago, DeepestRed said:

 

Interesting interpretation of "fact" you have there.

FACT:  That was not a fact.  That was hearsay.

FACT:  An Aerosoft developer claims they left the animation out because they were afraid it would cause performance issues on the XBox.

Also FACT: The PMDG DC-6, a much more complex plane with no dearth of animations, is available on the Xbox and seems to manage it fine.

Also FACT: There are now, just based on a quick scan of the marketplace, at least several dozen third-party planes available on the Xbox.

HEARSAY: I cannot recall any of the other developers of those blaming "animation load" for a missing feature the way Aerosoft is.

OPINION: The claim from Aerosoft is questionable -- it may be true, it may be an excuse, it may be halfway true, with there being a "better" way of doing things that Aerosoft have opted against for sake of convenience or speed.   We don't know.  Which is why it can't be asserted as fact.

Also OPINION: This forum would be much better off without people extrapolating unsubstantiated claims into "fact" and using them for tiresome anti-Xbox axe-grinding.

When the leader of Aersoft's PR says it is because of the limitations of the XBOX it is fact as to why until his words are proven different. By your standards facts we are taught at school are not facts then! A fact is a fact until proven otherwise. Get out of the "My Truth" game its a fantasy! 

Other devs? Like the DC6 which had to be pulled, probably for this reason! Why would he say that, it is such a damming thing to say! The planes on the market place are all trash mostly, and many are not on the XBOX Market place! 

I agree it is hard to beleive, but my oh my he could of said something else! This is the direction they want to go, Easy to please, loads of hype, and causals who dont know what's what mostly. Less work, more profit, more hype..OMG this is the most detailed plane ever and all that, Dev updates full of promise!

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by a321

55 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Not for nothing, but I've got an idea: How about releasing software that is mature and thoroughly thested. And contains the features you promised like the lvar lists for your promised great hardware support. With a functioning autopilot and the great systems modelling you said it will have. And where flicking default hardware switches like the generator are actually reflected in the appropriate action in the sim. Or with a working HSI. Or an undockable GPS like in every other dang plane on the market for fs2020. Even the default ones. I know it sounds silly. But would that not be a great idea to do that before you try to get money from your victi... err customers. Not that piece of banana ware that it is right now.

You cannot tell me they did not know. And if they'd had marketed it as "early access" or whatever bugridden alphas are marketed as I'd have understood. But they did not. This is the product. Nowhere in the announcements did it say it is not feature complete. How can anyone approve of that. They will not accept you just paying part of the money for it you know. But you gladly accept getting only part of the product.

That’s why threads like these provide such a valuable service.  “Buyer Beware.”  Don’t purchase a product just because a pre-release YouTube influencer says it’s fantastic.  As soon as they say “but I’m sure this will be fixed before release” you should hit stop program because they probably have an ulterior motive for saying such nonsense.

1 hour ago, Deimos said:

Not for nothing, but I've got an idea: How about releasing software that is mature and thoroughly thested. And contains the features you promised like the lvar lists for your promised great hardware support. With a functioning autopilot and the great systems modelling you said it will have. And where flicking default hardware switches like the generator are actually reflected in the appropriate action in the sim. Or with a working HSI. Or an undockable GPS like in every other dang plane on the market for fs2020. Even the default ones. I know it sounds silly. But would that not be a great idea to do that before you try to get money from your victi... err customers. Not that piece of banana ware that it is right now.

You cannot tell me they did not know. And if they'd had marketed it as "early access" or whatever bugridden alphas are marketed as I'd have understood. But they did not. This is the product. Nowhere in the announcements did it say it is not feature complete. How can anyone approve of that. They will not accept you just paying part of the money for it you know. But you gladly accept getting only part of the product.

I'm not sure I have ever purchased anything for a sim that didn't need a bugfix after release.  My favourite aircraft since its release is the SWS Kodiak, but even an aircraft that good had a serious bug - a rogue digit in the code just before release apparently.  PMDG will release their 737 shortly and I guess that will need some updates.  To a certain extent we should buy a complex addon with the knowledge it may not be perfect and it will require updates.  Of course, a particular company may have a reputation for below par quality at release. If we buy immediately from that company, instead of waiting to read reviews, our expectation should be lower anyway.

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by MrBitstFlyer

14 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I'm not sure I have ever purchased anything for a sim that didn't need a bugfix after release

Sure, a bugfix. And why not. Errors are bound to happen. That is why I did not include the bad sound transitions in my original post as this seems to be a genuine error. But it is one thing to fix some bug but another to have a whole host of things obviously not working and judging by the dev's posts with their full knowledge. These are no errors, this is wilful behaviour. And I would not condone that if it were my work. You cannot sell Cheeseburgers without cheese and expect noone to object.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by Deimos

19 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

That’s why threads like these provide such a valuable service.  “Buyer Beware.”  Don’t purchase a product just because a pre-release YouTube influencer says it’s fantastic.  As soon as they say “but I’m sure this will be fixed before release” you should hit stop program because they probably have an ulterior motive for saying such nonsense.

I just say to myself, "Great! They're going to fix it...and when they've fixed it, I'll buy it."

17 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

To a certain extent we should buy a complex addon with the knowledge it may not be perfect and it will require updates.

Why buy it  then? Just enables such actions by retailers.

23 minutes ago, Adrian123 said:

41 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

To a certain extent we should buy a complex addon with the knowledge it may not be perfect and it will require updates.

Why buy it  then? Just enables such actions by retailers.

The next aircraft that SWS release will get my money on day one.  The Kodiak has  proven to me their products are high quality and that they respond quickly to customer concerns.  I did not buy the CRJ or Twin Otter on day one because of previous releases missing features - and the fact it is a long road to a complete product if that indeed arrives.

I am still considering the Twin Otter when and if missing features and bugs are sorted.  You ask 'why buy it'. As I said, a complex aircraft is never going to be released without bugs, so there should be an expectation of issues if anybody decides to buy on day one.  If the developer has a reputation for poor quality at release then the buyer should be taking that into account before purchase.

Just now, MrBitstFlyer said:

The next aircraft that SWS release will get my money on day one.  The Kodiak has  proven to me their products are high quality and that they respond quickly to customer concerns.  I did not buy the CRJ or Twin Otter on day one because of previous releases missing features - and the fact it is a long road to a complete product if that indeed arrives.

I am still considering the Twin Otter when and if missing features and bugs are sorted.  You ask 'why buy it'. As I said, a complex aircraft is never going to be released without bugs, so there should be an expectation of issues if anybody decides to buy on day one.  If the developer has a reputation for poor quality at release then the buyer should be taking that into account before purchase.

I also like the fact that you can post a question on their Discord page, and get an answer from the developer in a few hours. 

43 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I also like the fact that you can post a question on their Discord page, and get an answer from the developer in a few hours. 

And a not a condescending or vague but a helpful one at that. 😉 I was amazed by the Christmas Eve Update. I would have never anticipated or expected that. It just has a whole different feel of engagement with the customer and identification with your product. This also echoed through the MSFS forums. Same with Flying Iron for example. Then you see AH and Aerosoft being stuck in the FSX days of sitting on their high horses handing you down what you have to like.

EDIT: And it goes to show that a fairly non toxic community relies on both sides. And that quality is appreciated. Even with bugs. A lot is in the delivery of the fixes. Both in communication as in actual fixing. And owning up to it. I am really impressed by the "oops we did it wrong" attitude and the amount fo constructive feedback from the community to remedy the issue then. It is just an entire different climate with some companies. And since it is the same customers at least part of the ball must lay in the devs corner. Then you have posts in the Aerosoft forum akin to "I feel drained by the negative feedback, bad community" where I just think, if they deliver a better product and don't talk down to the guys purchasing it and maybe they will find the people engaging them differently as well.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by Deimos

6 hours ago, dikkeduif said:

Stop being so dramatic. While I don't agree with how they handle their support, at least give them a chance with the upcoming patch.

 

Perhaps we will be less Dramatic when they do a have the plane now, pay when it is fixed? I love the way you are so desperate to please.. "Oh ok Ill wait for you to give me what I paid for, no no take your time, you have my money,.,,here have my kids trust fund too!" 

This plane is the "Twin Conner" because Aerosoft and ASOBO Conned us, on both fronts for the plane and the fact in MK's words XBOX has affected the PC despite it being said it wont! My sim was at its best pre SU5.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by a321

10 minutes ago, a321 said:

Perhaps we will be less Dramatic when they do a have the plane now, pay when it is fixed? I love the way you are so desperate to please.. "Oh ok Ill wait for you to give me what I paid for, no no take your time, you have my money,.,,here have my kids trust fund too!" 

Your 'desperate to please' could be somebody else's appreciation of two facts.

1.  A complex aircraft is not going to be released without bugs.
2.  A developer with a history of missing features is likely to release products with missing features.

I held up buying the Twin Otter because of these two facts. I am not confident missing features will be put in or that bugs will ever be fixed.

Edited January 21, 20224 yr by MrBitstFlyer

9 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

 

1.  A complex aircraft is not going to be released without bugs.
 

So where is the complexity? To me this seems more like carenado level of complexety, looks pretty but no deepth...