[08APR22] PMDG 737 for MSFS Developer Update

[lwt1971 7,517]

2 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

This is interesting.  From a lot of discussion here in the MSFS forum, some 3rd party developers said that P3D allows more customization of the flight model, so it produces planes that fly more realistic compared to the planes in real life.  But Randazzo is saying the opposite for this 737 - that the MSFS version of this 737 flies more realistically than the P3D version of it.

I don't know who is right or wrong, or if there are cases where P3D is better than MSFS and cases where MSFS is better than P3D. But at least for this 737, Randazzo is saying the MSFS 737 is better than the P3D 737.

Yup definitely. But IMHO, I've seen certain 3PDs and modders who find every opportunity to dump on MSFS and then immediately sing the virtues of previous sims.. and if you look a bit closer as to why, it's due to either a) them having been ignored or not responded to in a way they wanted by Asobo for whatever request(s) they had, and/or b) they don't like to re-learn a new way of developing for the platform, etc :S

But ya, what Rob says from https://youtu.be/6sG5IiTlD3Y?t=1673 onwards definitely speaks otherwise. Not too long from now, we can all see for ourselves once PMDG's and others' high fidelity aircraft are out there, and decide for ourselves (but like I've said before, the few high fidelity aircraft already out there for MSFS more than validate the capabilities of the core flight model and aerodynamics, and these are the just beginnings).

[abrams_tank 7,534]

5 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I have always been pretty skeptical of these kinds of statements. And, really, if you are trying to sell another version of your product, one that many have already bought and used in another simulator, you are going to to emphasize these kinds of things so that people think hey, this is the best iPhone we have ever produced (sorry, best PMDG 737, we have every made), and get everyone hyped to go and get the new version! 

Well, wasn't the PMDG MSFS DC6 the best version of the PMDG DC6 among P3D, XP, and MSFS?  Maybe Randazzo is speaking the truth here, based on the DC6 that came out for MSFS.

[ahsmatt7 1,213]

53 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

What scunnuers me is being screwed and lied to. ( The idea that the 800 is so much more complicated than the 700 seems to me to be stretching credibility..')

But so be it. I'll just have to buy two planes and pay the price. No big deal I suppose.

How were you screwed?

 

Wait a minute if you only want the -800, why do you have to buy 2 airplanes? Its been said numerous times you only have to buy the variant you want.

Edited April 9, 2022 by ahsmatt7

[dfl1010 26]

41 minutes ago, Cognita said:

I don't know if I am going to pass; but I am going to wait a while and see how it goes. Any mention of early access makes me nervous, especially from PMDG that has historically not taken this kind of approach, and, as has been noted, they are slow to update after the initial roll out is complete. I am not sure about a "almost entirely finished" product and then hoping that it is actually finished. It is not clear why these unfinished things cannot be completed before release; strikes me as kind of a strange statement: "Hey, go ahead and buy the car. We can't polish up the interior and make it look nice until we sell it"? It makes me speculate that it is more about cash flow than introducing a excellent product, excellent in the context of MSFS. Historically, I have purchased PMDG on pretty much the first day, but I think this time I will hold off for a while and see how it unfolds. But I am hopefully it will go well and am looking forward flying it -- although, also more excited for the cargo and BBJ variants than the passenger one. 

I suspect it's not so much about cash flow per se (although that's a happy side-effect) but trying to release before the competition into a fairly crowded period for airliners. First out of the gate will most likely sell very well (unless it's complete bobbins).

[dfl1010 26]

For reasons I still can't completely understand, I'm a bit more interested in the cargo variants.

Has it been stated which variants will come with cargo versions?

[Zangoose 1,643]

10 minutes ago, dfl1010 said:

For reasons I still can't completely understand, I'm a bit more interested in the cargo variants.

Has it been stated which variants will come with cargo versions?

There will be! I assume they will also do the same for any of the others that it applies to when they get released.

Quote

This package will include the 737-700 in passenger, cargo and BBJ variants with multiple winglet styles and a full and complete set of options and configurations in order to provide a highly realistic, highly customizable user experience

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Zangoose

[dfl1010 26]

4 minutes ago, Zangoose said:

There is BBJ and Freighter versions

Ideal, cheers mate.

[simon747 185]

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

So it's not an "early access build" in the traditional sense... when it releases it will have functionality that is >= the P3D-equivalent, and then new above-and-beyond features being released for free incrementally in the weeks following, such as: all new EFB, ever higher res/detailed passenger cabins and modelling, enhanced LNAV (from what I gathered near end of podcast), etc.
 

Yes, that is what I got from it.  Sounds like a good plan with the current state of the sim and future de-bugging tools in the future.

I thought the podcast was great and you could really tell how passionate he is about aviation.  Nice to hear a real world pilot talk.  😅Sounds like we may get some teasers next week judging from what he said in the podcast.  Looks to be a beautiful bird in the new simulator.

[JSmith2112 317]

1 hour ago, dfl1010 said:

I suspect it's not so much about cash flow per se (although that's a happy side-effect) but trying to release before the competition into a fairly crowded period for airliners. First out of the gate will most likely sell very well (unless it's complete bobbins).

In the recent podcast where Randazzo was interviewed he mentions:

1. The 737 has taken much longer to develop than they anticipated.

2. He mentions that they are starting to run down their cash reserves.

I expect there are those that will buy the 737 as soon as it is available regardless of what offerings from other companies are available at the time.

[Bob Scott 7,771]

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This is interesting.  From a lot of discussion here in the MSFS forum, some 3rd party developers said that P3D allows more customization of the flight model, so it produces planes that fly more realistic compared to the planes in real life.  But Randazzo is saying the opposite for this 737 - that the MSFS version of this 737 flies more realistically than the P3D version of it.

I don't know who is right or wrong, or if there are cases where P3D is better than MSFS and cases where MSFS is better than P3D. But at least for this 737, Randazzo is saying the MSFS 737 is better than the P3D 737.

No, he did not say that it would fly more realistically...he said it would be more "feature rich."  That could well mean flushing toilets, bubbling coffee pots, rivet counts on the external model, or any number of other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with flight dynamics and system depth/realism.

I do find it curious that the -600 will be second in the hit parade, given that only 68 were ever made, and only 12 remain in active service still (six doing Area 51 runs for Janet out of Las Vegas, five at Air Algeria, and one at Tarco in Sudan.  Contrast that with over 5,000 of the -800 models still flying today.  Might have to do with the flight dynamics differences from the bigger -800 wing, although the real-world BBJ1 (PMDG's is set to release with the -700) has the same wings as the -800 as well as more powerful engines.  If the PMDG BBJ ends up just being a -700 with BBJ textures and a few extra fuel tanks, that would be pretty disappointing.

[Stearmandriver 2,333]

7 hours ago, harrry said:

I fly in Australia and Asia, mostly SEAsia and China.  No airline flies the 700 or 600 in these aireas that I am aware of.

This is what I was talking about.  There is little meaningful difference (from a sim standpoint where you're not trying to make money by putting people in seats) between the various models of the NG family.  Literally the only cockpit difference I can think of is an extra temp control knob in the long-bodies.

They don't fly significantly differently in real life, and so I wouldn't expect to see a lot of difference in the sim.

Certainly there's no harm in waiting for the product you want, but my point is that if you're one of the folks who are upset about having to wait: you might as well just get the -700 and enjoy it. You won't actually be missing out on any sort of realism... a 737-NG is, for all simming purposes, an NG.

Based on comments here I think a lot of folks would be very surprised at how little difference there really is between flying a -700 and a -800.

[lwt1971 7,517]

30 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

No, he did not say that it would fly more realistically...he said it would be more "feature rich."  That could well mean flushing toilets, bubbling coffee pots, rivet counts on the external model, or any number of other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with flight dynamics and system depth/realism.

We are talking about what Rob says from this point onwards in yesterday's radio interview/Q&A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sG5IiTlD3Y&t=1891s : "... just how much more real, more fluid, and more dynamic the flight model feels in MSFS ..." (in comparison to P3D)

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by lwt1971

[Simple B 141]

6 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

No, he did not say that it would fly more realistically...he said it would be more "feature rich."  That could well mean flushing toilets, bubbling coffee pots, rivet counts on the external model, or any number of other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with flight dynamics and system depth/realism.

 

Listen from 31.30 minutes to 32 in the youtube interview posted, he said it feels more real and fluid than it does in P3D and thats down to the flight model, pays special tribute to Sebs efforts here and that is really exciting that it allows them to model the flight dynamics in ways that have never been possible in other sims before.

[ryanbatc 13,105]

43 minutes ago, Simple B said:

Listen from 31.30 minutes to 32 in the youtube interview posted, he said it feels more real and fluid than it does in P3D and thats down to the flight model, pays special tribute to Sebs efforts here and that is really exciting that it allows them to model the flight dynamics in ways that have never been possible in other sims before.

That can't be possible though....real pilots say P3D has a more realistic flight model than MSFS. Har Har Har

[Adrian123 1,016]

9 minutes ago, ryanbatc said:

P3D has a more realistic flight model than MSFS.

This is true at least the flight controls aspect. Not intended for an Xbox controller.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Adrian123