24 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Hmm, I am reasonably certain that Robert Randazzo originally stated that the 700 would be released first, followed by the 800....or am I mistaken? Not that it matters. If the 600 is released after the 700, there should be plenty more fascinating material to read at AVSIM

700 then 600 makes more sense as they share common overhead and systems I believe.  800/900 have a different overhead configuration amongst other things "i believe."

Also, if they are doing a CFM56-7B18/20/22 engine variant first then they are limited to the 600/700  they would need a 7B24 for the -800/900 and as we know PMDG tend to model engine variants this could be the driving logic...  

Honestly, why would ANYONE want to be a developer in this hobby... It's not like anyone is getting rich off FS Add-ons and then you have to deal with all of this noise and accusations while people call you names and insult you.  This is literally the only hobby I participate in that is like this... 

 

 

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

It's not that easy. There are many psychological mechanisms at work, trust me I know that from my profession. A big part of marketing and advertising is making people buy your product that would not have bought your product if they made a free decision on the base of pure information and rational for-against-arguments. I'm not saying this is "evil" per se and surely some people are more resilient to this than others, but the "free customer" is a myth. I do believe that customers should still be held responsible for their purchase decisions in the end, however, so maybe we can agree on that last part.

Honestly, how do people get through the day…

I fly with Virtual Airlines, or Real time flights that are in the air on FlightRadar24.  I fly in Australia and Asia, mostly SEAsia and China.  No airline flies the 700 or 600 in these aireas that I am aware of.  I do nt fly in the us vey much because of the time difference,  Southwest may suit some of you but not me.  The 600does have the snapiness that is missing from the others and because of the long range tanks in the Business jet version hasa a little interest but the 7oo adds little to the mix.  I have gone for a long period without it having the kind of airliner I like to fly and it is disapointing to have it delayed even more.  Yes I can fly in P3d or Xplane but that may mean I decide I do not need Robert's wares.

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

 

Honestly, why would ANYONE want to be a developer in this hobby... It's not like anyone is getting rich off FS Add-ons and then you have to deal with all of this noise and accusations while people call you names and insult you. 

 

I mean, he does own a DC-3 and a Citation lol

2 minutes ago, harrry said:

I fly with Virtual Airlines, or Real time flights that are in the air on FlightRadar24.  I fly in Australia and Asia, mostly SEAsia and China.  No airline flies the 700 or 600 in these aireas that I am aware of.  I do nt fly in the us vey much because of the time difference,  Southwest may suit some of you but not me.  The 600does have the snapiness that is missing from the others and because of the long range tanks in the Business jet version hasa a little interest but the 7oo adds little to the mix.  I have gone for a long period without it having the kind of airliner I like to fly and it is disapointing to have it delayed even more.  Yes I can fly in P3d or Xplane but that may mean I decide I do not need Robert's wares.

And in real life I race a specific model but for years that model wasn't available in sim racing so I had two options, compromise and still enjoy the sim with another model or boycott the whole thing.  

This is very much a shoot off your nose to spite your face crowd.    

11 minutes ago, harrry said:

I fly with Virtual Airlines, or Real time flights that are in the air on FlightRadar24.  I fly in Australia and Asia, mostly SEAsia and China.  No airline flies the 700 or 600 in these aireas that I am aware of.  I do nt fly in the us vey much because of the time difference,  Southwest may suit some of you but not me.  The 600does have the snapiness that is missing from the others and because of the long range tanks in the Business jet version hasa a little interest but the 7oo adds little to the mix.  I have gone for a long period without it having the kind of airliner I like to fly and it is disapointing to have it delayed even more.  Yes I can fly in P3d or Xplane but that may mean I decide I do not need Robert's wares.

China United Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, China Southern, China Eastern, SpiceJet, MyWay all have 737-700 planes in the sky as we speak if you are limiting yourself to that part of the world. Again, it’s not a big deal that the one you want isn’t coming out first. Just have to wait!

Edited April 9, 20224 yr by Zangoose

Just now, Chapstick said:

I mean, he does own a DC-3 and a Citation lol

And I am fairly certain selling FS Add-ons starting in 2002 isn't what funded those but his worth allowed him the financial freedom to start PMDG due to his pure love of aviation.  You really think FS developers are buying private jets off their profits?  In racing we say the quickest way to become a millionaire is to start with a billion.  

To quote RSR:

Quote

After all, there is no practical reason to own a DC-3 except perhaps to give some folks a chance to reconnect to history that they helped to build. 

 

10 minutes ago, Zangoose said:

China United Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, China Southern, China Eastern, SpiceJet, MyWay all have 737-700 planes in the sky as we speak if you are limiting yourself to that part of the world. Again, it’s not a big deal that the one you want isn’t coming out first. Just have to wait!

Think he maybe referring to Qantas as they only fly the 800. I know as i bought their 800 first doing this same thing then realising the US market is bigger went 600/700 expansion to have the Southwest 700. However yes China etc. all fly the 700.

Edited April 9, 20224 yr by 40track

6 hours ago, grandfred29 said:

Seems to be confirmed by rsr in his last postcat. 700, 600, 800 and 900

 

Randazzo has also clarified the release order in a new post in the PMDG forum:

Quote

Evening Everybody!

A couple of folks have been debating the release order: You may recall that late last summer we announced the release order would be 700, 600 first because they are functionally very similar and that the 800 and 900 would need significant additional engineering that has to be done second because the 600/700 are the foundation of the engineering production process for Boeing and for the logical processes in the PMDG simulation.

We decided to do the 700 first since it was more popular in the real world than the 600. This also fits in the ability for us to give the team a chance to catch it's breath as we phase in the 600, rather than going from heavy lift to heavy lift.

Just wanted to be certain it was clear that this information has been presented previously and does not represent a change!

Edit 'cuz I forgot to mention this part:
Another piece that is probably worth mentioning is that the amount of time it will take to complete the 800 series is about 10-12 weeks from when the 700 is released. It is substantially irrelevant if the 600 drops in-between the 700 and 800 because of the way workflow parses out between the code team and the modeling teams. We could cancel the 600 release entirely and it would not change the delivery date of the 800 relative to the 700.

I realize that some folks are always looking for a conspiracy theory, and this point doesn't support that desperate desire to have something to be angry about- but I think it is important that the facts be made clear here, as they are relevant.
 

So the release order will be 700, then 600 after that.  I assume the 800 comes after the 600, although Randazzo didn't specify whether the 800 or 900 comes after the 600 in this post above.

Edited April 9, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

31 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

I mean, he does own a DC-3 and a Citation lol

Exactly and they gallivant around in their planes. The corporate jet gets fuelled on the zombies that will put up with whatever they'll release to extract maximum profit. Fair enough but poor form.

Edited April 9, 20224 yr by VBHB

The big question to me is whether GFO will ever come out or is just delayed until asobo makes the required changes.  If it never comes out, I would think PMDG will need to pivot and find a way to integrate things like CPDLC, AOC, GSX integration etc.  Realize gsx not out yet.  But the rest of the big developers have moved on.  PMDG will start to stick out in a negative way if they can't also evolve.  

Ive followed this development closely, and I think rsr is heavily mistaken, but not wrong. There was never a mention that the 600 will be next. However I believe the line that confused everyone including myself is the Jan 17th post where he says:

"Effective with this new product line, we are going to break them into body types so that you can purchase just the body type you want. For example, our initial release will focus on the 700 series airframe. It will come with the 737-700 body in a couple of iterations and winglet options. It will also come with the 737-700BCF (also with winglet options) and of course the venerable BBJ with winglet options and the whole fuel tank configuration range.

Then we will offer a similar roundup for the 737-800 series. It will include the 800 (in various formats) the 800BCF and the BBJ2. We will then treat the 600 and 900s similarly, grouping nearly all of the possible NG dirvations together by body style and offering them individually rather than as a base-package/expansion package combination."

Further down the post he states :

" We anticipate about 6 weeks lag time between each release, with the 700 series being first. We haven't determined the final order for the remainder, as there are a few moving parts still to be nailed down. Once we have those sorted the release order will flow naturally from that. (We are leaning to the 800 because we know that is one you guys really want!) "

So despite what most including myself thought, technically, the 800 was never announced to be next, although it sure looked like it, but despite what he said, he definitely never said the 600 will be next.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 20224 yr by johnnycaptain

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

The diffrence with this release is there "forcing" you to buy the 700, FSX and P3D the base was the 800/900. The ones most people want, you then could buy the 600/700 as an addon.

This time, and the first time you have to buy the base 700 then wait and buy the 800 as on addon. So before you could just buy the base and be happy becasue you have the most common used 73, no, now you have to ( well you dont have to) buy the base and an addon just to get where you was with just the base within FSX/P3D. 

PMDG....🙄

 

From what RSR has said, each variant of the 737 is a complete, stand-alone product. It is not necessary to own the 700 in order to install the 800 later. In my case, the 700 is my preferred version of the aircraft. It is the only one I owned in P3D - The only r/w airline I have any interest in emulating is Southwest. I actually have more interest in the BBJ version for day-to-day flying.

So for me, I’m pleased that the 700 is coming first. But if PMDG had chosen to release the 800 initially, I would simply wait for the 700.

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

FWIW, from someone who has flown and/or currently flies the -400, -700, -800, -900, -900ER, and -9Max, this angst/obsession with simulating specific variants of the 737 seems strange. Sure there are meaningful differences between the classics, NGs, and MAXs... but within the NG family? They honestly aren't that different.  The -700 climbs a little better, and the numbers are different in terms of weights and speeds.  But in the end, it's not like anyone is going to work thinking "boy I hope I'm taking an ER to LAX today instead of a -700."  No one actually cares.  You fly the plane that's on the release, and it's all about the same. 

I'll be buying the PMDG -700 because I guess I'll need the work airplane in the sim, and the -700 is the most versatile of the NGs anyway.  It can go anywhere and do anything any of the others can - and it does.  Doubt I'll buy another variant until the Max, because... well, it's all the same cockpit, and in the end that's what simming is - operating the cockpit.

 

Well said  @Stearmandriver and this might help others out there that are confused about all this. The way I see it, if you are US centric or are a Ryan Air aficionado, then you may be focused on the big operators of -800's but I like what you say about the -700 doing everything asked of it too. I would add that many reading these forums will not be too fussed about Southwest or Ryan Air liveries when like me, they will be originating their flights from non-US home regions. This is what makes the -700 the more exciting model because there are many government, military and private versions of the 700 in use, and according to the development release:

"  This package will include the 737-700 in passenger, cargo and BBJ variants with multiple winglet styles and a full and complete set of options and configurations in order to provide a highly realistic, highly customizable user experience."

The opportunity to explore the world in extraordinary detail with MSFS means I for one have no desire to be confined to simple airline routes just traipsing between the same domestic airports every time I go flying. Much rather that I can plan unique world routes with the premise of carrying government dignitaries, in military VIP liveries or big corporate passengers in BBJ.'s, or special cargo charters, anywhere in the world ( except, you know where) and for this a -700 is the ideal. I am unlikely to buy the -800 and like you would rather wait for the MAX.  So all this argument at the moment is beyond me. 

Perhaps we can move on from the disgruntled with something a little more interesting or quirky maybe. As many of you may have already read, the popularity of the -800 also stems from its appealing appearance especially when compared to the squat -600 or the elongated -900.  If we examine this in a bit more detail we see that this is to do with the Golden Ratio which in simple terms is calculated by dividing the long dimension by the short dimension to arrive at  1.61  (approx). 

Now if we accept that the wings of all variants are roughly in the centre of the fuselage and that the variants are largely created by adding equal size fuselage plugs both in front of and behind the wing, then we can determine the proportional ratio of each model to see how close they are to meeting the Golden Ratio, by using this simple formula (in metres sorry): 

(Length of fuselage / 2) / height of vertical stabiliser (from the ground). 

-600    ( 31.2    /    2  )  /    12.6  =  1.23

-700    ( 33.6   /    2  )  /    12.5  =  1.34

-800    ( 39.5   /    2  )  /    12.5   =  1.58 (closest to the Golden Ratio)

-900    ( 42.1   /    2  )  /    12.5   =  1.68

If you ever wondered why everyone liked the earlier Classic -400 this might explain why...

-400    ( 36.5   /    2  )  /    11.3   =  1.61 (perfectly meets the Golden Ratio).

One other bit of useless information.  It seems the -600 has a larger fin and this is no doubt due to its short fuselage and the need to give greater turning moment effect to the rudder in asymmetric configurations. The B747SP fin was 5 feet taller than the a standard B747 for the same reason.

So there you go a bit of useless trivia to break up the unfathomable. Definitely looking forward to the -700. 

Cheers

Terry

 

 

   

8 minutes ago, Lord Farringdon said:

The opportunity to explore the world in extraordinary detail with MSFS means I for one have no desire to be confined to simple airline routes just traipsing between the same domestic airports every time I go flying. Much rather that I can plan unique world routes with the premise of carrying government dignitaries, in military VIP liveries or big corporate passengers in BBJ.'s, or special cargo charters, anywhere in the world ( except, you know where) and for this a -700 is the ideal. I am unlikely to buy the -800 and like you would rather wait for the MAX.  So all this argument at the moment is beyond me. 

This is exactly why I prefer the BBJ version of the 700 for my own personal flying. On those occasions I do chose to emulate airline ops, I choose Southwest - specifically because they do point-to-point, not hub & spoke. A particular aircraft tail number that starts the day in Baltimore, might end the day in Seattle - after flying to 5 or 6 intermediate cities throughout the day. The same airframe might do a completely different set of cities the next day, starting in Seattle.