Filbert put out a video with a 737 Pilot.

@tfm you should watch it so that you can see that there's so much more to the PMDG 737 than shooting DME arcs.

10 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Turn ten, twist ten!

For us lazy PPL flyers, I was taught 20 degree turns, moving the RMI needle from 10 degrees aft wingtip to 10 degrees ahead of wingtip. Rinse and repeat.

Reduces the amount of turns by half.

What can I say, 60% of the time, it works every time 😁

58 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

If that really perplexes you, you must be new to the game. It's been always like this, not only for PMDG (they are, however, one of the worst offenders).
Now pose yourself one question: What would generate more sales among MSFS simmers? A video about DME ARCS properly drawn with LNAV? Or a video about cockpit textures? PMDG does what sells best, and they are as good in this as anyone.
Me and you we might really miss a good LNAV, but we are not the majority, not even close to.

Hahaha I’ve used flight simulators since Psion on  the Spectrum in the 1980s so no, I’m not new to this 🙂 (Edit: actually, to show how old I am, I also played “Night Flight” on the VIC20 which might have been even earlier than the Spectrum).

My gripe is simply that PMDG once was, and postures as if it still is, “best in class”. We are, or at least I am, dumb enough to have fallen for that hype - only to find that PMDG is nowadays way behind the curve in (at least) this feature which is crucial for verisimilitude, this being the one thing that creates a market for paid-for “study level” add-ons in the first place. 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by tfm

13 minutes ago, DJJose said:

Filbert put out a video with a 737 Pilot.

@tfm you should watch it so that you can see that there's so much more to the PMDG 737 than shooting DME arcs.

I totally get that, but that’s not really the point 🙂 

 

I’m good and ready to be forgiving and indulgent and all the rest of it, but there’s just no excuse after all these years, of a known issue, for lavishing attention on all the silly little things like extra textures and so on without getting the (word not allowed) LNAV working properly 🙂  

1 hour ago, tfm said:

I just tried to track this down on PMDG’s forums and based on what I found, I now feel fairly astonished. Mr Randazzo admitted in March 2019 that LNAV was basically the same as in 2002 and that an overhaul of LNAV was “long overdue”. That’s over 3 years ago 😶

 

I made a post there. I expect it will receive the usual dismissive response, or no response. 
 

What perplexes me the most, is the attention lavished on silly details like sound effects from the cabin and textures of knobs and so on, plus seemingly endless time available for making long-winded videos to post on YouTube, when something absolutely fundamental to the functionality of the aeroplane is knowingly left in this unfinished state.

It makes great eye/ear candy for advertising.

I can see this is the same code from P3D.

It does fly better and does not float on landing, but mainly its the same old code. But I dont thing PMDG are S tier and not been for a few years, there A or A+ at best, but not S imho ofc.

Roberts Hype is S tier.

As for the LNAV, its been fine in the flights I have done so far. 

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by Nyxx

If it weren't for the coupon from the previous purchase I wouldn't buy the 737. 

4 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I can see this is the same code from P3D.

That's what I noticed right away, old gal (code) with a new face lift. 

Plus, stuff like DME Arc, and never delivered LNAV - if they are good at anything, that's creating hype and empty promises. Been a customer for over a decade.

 

1 hour ago, tfm said:

I just tried to track this down on PMDG’s forums and based on what I found, I now feel fairly astonished. Mr Randazzo admitted in March 2019 that LNAV was basically the same as in 2002 and that an overhaul of LNAV was “long overdue”. That’s over 3 years ago 😶

 

I made a post there. I expect it will receive the usual dismissive response, or no response. 
 

What perplexes me the most, is the attention lavished on silly details like sound effects from the cabin and textures of knobs and so on, plus seemingly endless time available for making long-winded videos to post on YouTube, when something absolutely fundamental to the functionality of the aeroplane is knowingly left in this unfinished state.

My experience with the DC6 is that promises are easy, but you never see the results. I decided, no more PMDG for me. 

19 minutes ago, tfm said:

Hahaha I’ve used flight simulators since Psion on  the Spectrum in the 1980s so no, I’m not new to this 🙂

 

My gripe is simply that PMDG once was, and postures as if it still is, “best in class”. We are, or at least I am, dumb enough to have fallen for that hype - only to find that PMDG is nowadays way behind the curve in (at least) this feature which is crucial for verisimilitude, this being the one thing that creates a market for paid-for “study level” add-ons in the first place. 

Perhaps you have overestimated what level of verisimilitude you were seriously hoping to get for $69 bucks in a piece of entertainment software. It absolutely hits my buttons for being 'as real as it gets', but it's not a real life study level simulator and can never be certified as such. It is only for entertainment.  Ever since the Spectrum it has been like this,  as you know.  Anyway, my understanding is they are working on it along with Wx radar, and EFB and when all this finally arrives I'm not sure what issues, of any substance, this forum will still find to complain about?    

According to PMDG, the reason LNAV V2 isn't there yet, is due to missing debug functionality in the core sim. That's what I remember, at least.

So it's not their fault. (Haha) 😜

They're not targeting us long-time customers, seasoned sim pilots anymore.

Newcomers and casual flyers hardly mind the missing functionality.

When the NGX came out in 2011 I was excited as well, and didn't care about what was already lacking back then. I am not anymore.

 

15 minutes ago, thepilot said:

They're not targeting us long-time customers, seasoned sim pilots anymore.

I was about to post pics of all my FSX PMDG CD collection, but take my word for it. I'm as seasoned as they get.

4 hours ago, tfm said:

My gripe is simply that PMDG once was, and postures as if it still is, “best in class”. We are, or at least I am, dumb enough to have fallen for that hype - only to find that PMDG is nowadays way behind the curve in (at least) this feature which is crucial for verisimilitude, this being the one thing that creates a market for paid-for “study level” add-ons in the first place. 

Well I wouldn't say "dumb enough", but perhaps "not cognizant enough"... always helps to pay attention to what PMDG themselves have said, specifically re: improving this feature (i.e. LNAV 2.0) and some others coming later due to certain circumstances... see below. I've bolded the LNAV 2.0 bit, and for the items in the first list they say don't need anything else from Asobo, and for items in the second list PMDG is waiting on some promised updates from Asobo... all are slated to come in next 2-3 months as far as they know as of now.

And for those who seem to be bitter about PMDG for various reasons and have resolutely held back from purchasing this 737, thank you as always for your valuable input (which we're always waiting with bated breath to hear) as you repeat to us for the 100th time why you're not caring for it ://
 

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/169846-19apr22-pmdg-737-development-update-let-s-talk-about-early-adopter-and-continued-maintenance-phases

For example (this is an incomplete sample list) we anticipate having the following items at least:

• High detail cabin for all passenger variants.
• High detail cabin for freighter variants.
• High detail cabin for BBJ variants.
• High detail gear bays for all models. (have you seen what a mess the gear bays are in the 737?)
• New flight tablet, to include performance computation process, control of aircraft options/simulation setup currently controlled through FMS menus, among other features.

Additionally, there are a few deliverable items on our agenda that will require updates to the platform or SDK by Asobo in order for us to complete these items. Many of these are either known to us to be pending from Asobo in a future update, or have been promised to us in specific discussions:

• Conversion to modern navigraph navdata format (requires C++ debugging capability in the SDK/platform)
• Integration of new PMDG LNAV 2.0 lateral control model (requires C++ debugging capability in the SDK/platform)
• Navigraph charts displayed on tablet (requires C++/WASM have access to outside communications in manner allowed for JavaScript products, but possibly unblocked by new technology independently)
• SimBrief integration via tablet (requires C++/WASM hae access to outside communications, but possibly unblocked by new technology independently)
• Windshield wiper sweep (advised by Asobo this will be native to platform)
• Weather radar (requires Asobo to provide access to weather/precip data)

Edited May 14, 20224 yr by lwt1971

38 minutes ago, thepilot said:

They're not targeting us long-time customers, seasoned sim pilots anymore.

Newcomers and casual flyers hardly mind the missing functionality.

You actually think developing systems down to a depth you're not ever going to notice as a simmer including extensive failures simulation means targeting the casual pilots and newcomers?

30 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Well I wouldn't say "dumb enough", but perhaps "not cognizant enough"... always helps to pay attention to what the PMDG themselves have said, specifically re: improving this feature (i.e. LNAV 2.0) and some others coming later due to certain circumstances... see below. I've bolded the LNAV 2.0 bit, and for the items in first list they say don't need anything else from Asobo, and for items in the second list PMDG is waiting on some promised updates from Asobo... all are slated to come in next 2-3 months as far as they know as of now.

And for those who seem to be bitter about PMDG for various reasons and have resolutely held back from purchasing this 737, thank you as always for your valuable input (which we're always waiting with bated breath to hear) as you repeat to us for the 100th time why you're not caring for it ://
 

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/169846-19apr22-pmdg-737-development-update-let-s-talk-about-early-adopter-and-continued-maintenance-phases

For example (this is an incomplete sample list) we anticipate having the following items at least:

• High detail cabin for all passenger variants.
• High detail cabin for freighter variants.
• High detail cabin for BBJ variants.
• High detail gear bays for all models. (have you seen what a mess the gear bays are in the 737?)
• New flight tablet, to include performance computation process, control of aircraft options/simulation setup currently controlled through FMS menus, among other features.

Additionally, there are a few deliverable items on our agenda that will require updates to the platform or SDK by Asobo in order for us to complete these items. Many of these are either known to us to be pending from Asobo in a future update, or have been promised to us in specific discussions:

• Conversion to modern navigraph navdata format (requires C++ debugging capability in the SDK/platform)
• Integration of new PMDG LNAV 2.0 lateral control model (requires C++ debugging capability in the SDK/platform)
• Navigraph charts displayed on tablet (requires C++/WASM have access to outside communications in manner allowed for JavaScript products, but possibly unblocked by new technology independently)
• SimBrief integration via tablet (requires C++/WASM hae access to outside communications, but possibly unblocked by new technology independently)
• Windshield wiper sweep (advised by Asobo this will be native to platform)
• Weather radar (requires Asobo to provide access to weather/precip data)

Ah thank you for that list, it’s interesting.

 

I have to say, though, I don’t recall noticing these things being mentioned on the product page when I bought the 737 🙂 

 

It would be better if something that deserves mention on their forum, was also mentioned on the product page visible at the time of purchase, because it’s basically an admission of quite a lot of shortcomings that might be important for some people, with no timeframe for any kind of fix.  

9 minutes ago, tfm said:

It would be better if something that deserves mention on their forum, was also mentioned on the product page visible at the time of purchase, because it’s basically an admission of quite a lot of shortcomings that might be important for some people, with no timeframe for any kind of fix.  

The timeframe is 24 weeks with updates roughly every 2 weeks, as mentioned in the post.