2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

This is an XP12 thread tho, not just the very tiny minority of people who consider themselves "serious simmers".

I posted it first? it says 59% were using windows NT for their OS and the rest were on POSIX.

I do sometimes get my maths wrong, but if you take 10 away from 59 Im reasonably sure that comes to less than 50.

And thats ignoring the fact that as of 2022 the best selling devices that will run XP12 (macs, macbook airs and steam decks) dont run windows.

Fair enough if you did mention the 59%  , must have forgotten that you did ,  but i was also trying to point out that windows is still and will still be the main target.

Yes it's a xp thread  but you cannot exclude the serious simmers , because a flight sim is just that it will simulate many aspects of flying a real aircraft and not some devices , else Austin would not bother going deep into the fdm , would you enjoy simulating a heli on a device without any controls ?  , before you ask if i have tried xp on mobile then yes i have and it was not for me. For casual users it would be fine. 

Those devices would be great for AAA games but it will not be enjoyable for the flight sims of xp Dcs and il2 level.

XP12 will run smooth as silk in VAX-VMS, and AS400, which is great because most serious users opt for those platforms since they're a lot cheaper these days.

We recently dismantled our 80s VAX-VMS system and there were lot's of emails from XP11 users asking for spares.... 

I believe the Ti-58 or, preferably the Ti-59 with store cards are yet another great option !

( and please, @mSparks or whoever, if you're familiar with Logic, just don't try to contradict my statement above ! )

 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by jcomm

29 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Fair enough if you did mention the 59%  , must have forgotten that you did ,  but i was also trying to point out that windows is still and will still be the main target.

Yes it's a xp thread  but you cannot exclude the serious simmers

But that is exactly the opposite of what I said.

e.g. windows was the main target for MSFS.

Result: doesnt run on linux, macOS, iOS android and the most popular devices being sold today, all of which are POSIX based.

So isnt a top seller 

In contrast - LR did "bother" with MacOS, since metal is macOS exclusive. So every macOS device sold in the last year or two should run XP12 fine.

Im not excluding serious simmers there, its just a statement about the direction of the market as a whole.

Or is Austin not a serious simmer because he only uses macOS?

This particular conversation focus started because the best windows laptop 2022 wont run XP12, its better mac comparator will.

https://www.xda-developers.com/macbook-air-2022-vs-dell-xps-13-2022/

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Support comes in all shapes and sizes, there is also support by hardware manufacturers, support by the OS developers and support from the software developers for those operating systems and their APIs.

It makes no sense for XP12 to spend significant development time crippling its graphics capabilities the way others have in order to support 80% of the windows desktop market - and Laminar "didnt bother" doing so.

If nothing else just because these people will still have XP11 and its subordinates.

Say I have £2000 to spend on a new Mac or PC. Which of the two will run XP12 better?

15 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Say I have £2000 to spend on a new Mac or PC. Which of the two will run XP12 better?

If you bought a non gamer windows laptop it wont install, if you bought a macbook air it will run pretty well (subject to not released yet disclaimers).

A few hundred £ on a steam deck will run better than both, and with GPU prices these days a gamer laptop or PC is going to cost you more than £2000

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by mSparks

At least with a pc I can put whatever I like in it. And gpu prices are falling.

27 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Say I have £2000 to spend on a new Mac or PC. Which of the two will run XP12 better?

For that amount you can get a PC that will run both MSFS and X-Plane very well. Only future benchmarks will tell, but I don't think you'll get faster performance when spending the same money on a Mac. High memory and storage prices of Apple considered. Any Mac with M1 Max or M1 Ultra is very interesting for XP12 however. But these are higher end machines.

59 minutes ago, mSparks said:

But that is exactly the opposite of what I said.

e.g. windows was the main target for MSFS.

Result: doesnt run on linux, macOS, iOS android and the most popular devices being sold today, all of which are POSIX based.

So isnt a top seller 

In contrast - LR did "bother" with MacOS, since metal is macOS exclusive. So every macOS device sold in the last year or two should run XP12 fine.

Im not excluding serious simmers there, its just a statement about the direction of the market as a whole.

Or is Austin not a serious simmer because he only uses macOS?

This particular conversation focus started because the best windows laptop 2022 wont run XP12, its better mac comparator will.

https://www.xda-developers.com/macbook-air-2022-vs-dell-xps-13-2022/

Let's just not take MSFS only , it's best to include DCS / il2 as these are flight sims too  , these two are premium class.  These don't run on other OS's and unless an until you only want Linux then you need to do that wine type thing and it's still not great.

About Austin on a mac , it's a personal preference and ofc if you have a lot of money 😜, but it still works on windows  , it's just that on a device you won't have that excitement like on a desktop. How would you like hovering the Robinson on a device compared to a desktop.

I am not sure what do you mean by " because the best windows laptop 2022 wont run XP12" ? the windows desktop / laptop  will also use the same hardware that a Linux desktop / laptop  user would use unless you go and buy a raspberry or an arm system 🤭.  The new macbook is a complete different architecture so just not comparable.  At the cost of a new macbook i can buy the top end Ryzen desktop with a top GPU and probably still save some. But again on a macbook I am highly limited to other sims and so is Linux.

I have both W10 and linux on a dual boot . i don't plan on using XP12 on Linux because I have new hardware and XP11 does very well on it under windows , yes Linux is a little more efficient . When XP12 releases and if Linux is showing me better performance than windows ,I will using XP12 on linux , and  go back to windows for my other sims. 

Remember if I am limiting myself to only XP then i can afford to go with Linux or if I have that money then with a mac.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Humpty

48 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

 And gpu prices are falling.

like a punch in my stomach.

In March I purchased the RTX 3050 at 40k INR ( Indian Rupees) and when I rechecked the pricing last week the RTX 3060 12GB is at 34k INR 😩

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Humpty

Never Check a price after buying 😊

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Dirk.M

2 minutes ago, Dirk.M said:

Never Check a price after buying 😊

Yeah , just did it 😁

22 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Let's just not take MSFS only

I wasnt really "taking" msfs at all, I was contrasting its developers and their decisions, and how Laminars decisions will play out for XP12 in the current market.

Dont know much if anything about the other developers, hence not commenting on them other than to refer to their products as XP11 subordinates.

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

If you bought a non gamer windows laptop it wont install, if you bought a macbook air it will run pretty well (subject to not released yet disclaimers).

A few hundred £ on a steam deck will run better than both, and with GPU prices these days a gamer laptop or PC is going to cost you more than £2000

Looks like I need to rephrase:

Just looked and for £1999 I can buy this from Novatech (UK)

• CPU: Intel Core i7 12700KF
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8GB
• RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance RGB SL 3600MHz
• Storage: 500GB WD Blue SN570 NVMe
• Storage: 2TB WD Blue HDD
• PSU: Corsair RM Series RM850
• Operating System: Windows 11 Home

Ive looked on the Apple store and I can't see any Mac for two grand or less?

 

6 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Looks like I need to rephrase:

Just looked and for £1999 I can buy this from Novatech (UK)

• CPU: Intel Core i7 12700KF
• GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti 8GB
• RAM: 16GB Corsair Vengeance RGB SL 3600MHz
• Storage: 500GB WD Blue SN570 NVMe
• Storage: 2TB WD Blue HDD
• PSU: Corsair RM Series RM850
• Operating System: Windows 11 Home

Ive looked on the Apple store and I can't see any Mac for two grand or less?

 

that should perform slightly worse than

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/apple-macbook-air-13.6-2022-m2-256-gb-ssd-starlight-10239790.html

Its also significantly more than the £2000 you gave once you add a decent monitor, sound keyboard and mouse.

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by mSparks

OK, folks, one last time, this thread is about the upcoming release of XP12. 

If you're not one of the folks that's been given a vacation for hijacking this thread yet again, I'd recommend that you make a conscious effort not to join them.