3 hours ago, Chock said:

and not actually building anything yet, which is where they are at the moment

 

Not exactly.

Demonstrator is go! 

Engines are being tested as we speak fellow forum experts. 😁

 

 

2 hours ago, Victoroos said:

Right? That was what I was wondering two. THis still is the case right?

 

No supersonic over land still. But 600 plus supersonic routes they say. 

Mid way down page:

https://boomsupersonic.com/

 

3 hours ago, Chock said:

This will not be a problem for my airliner: I expect some lucrative orders from the UK regionals, who will be able to fly a Manchester to Aberdeen route in approximately three seconds, based on my projected target cruise speed for KABOOM of Mach 23. Going at this speed means the thing will have completed its flight, landed and parked up in a hangar where nobody can see it before anyone even hears a sonic boom, which means we can blame the noise on something else. I will offset the carbon my planting a nice rose bush in my garden, which I reckon should do it. The first test flight will take place in October, when the clocks go back, so I will be able to claim the plane actually completed the flight an hour before it even taxied out to the runway, therefore being much faster than BOOM for some useful marketing kudos. Making it out of balsa wood and plastic will keep costs down and means I can utulise my considerable previous experience with having made lots of model aeroplanes, and of course means it will be very light which facilitates its projected target cruise speed of Mach 23.

I foresee a massive military order for you. The RAF will soon be equipped to chase those hyper-sonic missiles from China and overtake them with ease. if they ever need to

4 hours ago, Chock said:

Having now received 30 million dollars from my business deal this morning, I decided to invest it in developing my own supersonic airliner. It's still early days, I only designed it a minute ago, but already I have matched BOOM's level of progress, by doing my own concept drawing of an aeroplane and not actually building anything yet, which is where they are at the moment as well, so progress has been fairly rapid. By this afternoon I expect to surpass their efforts by knocking something up in my shed, so I present to you the impressive concept drawing of the new KABOOM X1000:

Hi Chock,

You have a competitor!

If your supersonic is drawn on ... paper, mine is in an advanced state of design with ... paper!😁

 

 

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Ray Proudfoot
Images in quoted post removed.

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Meanwhile Kim and Kylie take 15 minute flights in their business jets, so I'm sure they, and many other extravagant celebrities, would favour our Mr Boom.

I doubt that rich celebrities will choose to fly on this as opposed to a luxury private jet, even it it makes the trip a few hours shorter.

My guess is that this plane is aimed at the upper middle class folks who can't quite afford to fly private jet charters, but can afford a $5K ticket on a supersonic airliner and then brag to their friends about it.  Business execs are likely another big market for this, as well as high-ranking military staff.

It definitely ain't for the common folk.

Dave

5 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

I wonder how many 747's were pre-ordered before it actually took to the skies?  

In the early Sixties, Pan Am boss Juan Trippe asked Boeing to develop an aeroplane just over twice the size of the Boeing 707 which was popular, but just did not have the capacity Pan Am needed. In considering this request, Boeing asked some other airlines what they wanted, and from these discussions, they came up with a basic concept for the 747. At the time, many airlines thought the proposed new airliner would eventually be surpassed by something supersonic, since they knew Concorde was being developed and Boeing were also toying with the idea of making a supersonic airliner, but in considering this potential development, Boeing took this possibility into account by designing the 747 so it could be converted to use as a freighter if that supersonic switch happened, which never really did occur, but we know they had this in mind to offset the risks of development to some extent and it has meant the 747 is still useful today even though airlines tend to want range over capacity these days.

With a basic proposal of how the 747 would be featured, Pan Am ordered 25 of the proposed Boeing 747-100s, spending 525 million Dollars on this order, which equates to about 3.5 billion Dollars in today's money. This investment enabled Boeing to put up the building at Everett where the 747 would be constructed, which is still the largest building ever constructed. Eventually, Boeing made 167 Boeing 747-100s, going on to develop the later series models, which now totals well over 1,500 747s of all types. so what we know from this, is that sometimes if you do build it, they will come, but you often need a cash injection to make that happen, which explains the deposits to BOOM from several airlines. It's likely that more cash will come from such speculative orders, since confidence will be higher following the first investors having taken some of the risk out of the venture, because if you have the money, that tends to be the spur to get things done. You can make anything fly if you have enough money to fund it and the desire to do so.

Edited August 18, 20223 yr by Chock

4 hours ago, martin-w said:

Well, no less than THREE major airlines have taken this seriously and placed orders, not to mention placed non-refundable deposits. So I would have to ask if three major airlines and the company developing this aircraft, and the accountants that work for those companies, and the individuals paid to assess the viability of such concepts... are aware of something "guys on a forum" aren't.

You are assigning a level of significance to these actions that isn't backed by the evidence. I could probably put down a pre-order and a "non-refundable deposit" of, say, $10k an aircraft. It gives Boom some PR and gives the airlines some optionality, but in the grand scheme of things isn't particularly significant.

Same goes with whatever "partnerships" Boom has with other aerospace companies. If this is really such a sure thing, they could easily invest $200m or so in terms of a minority ownership stake. They haven't.

Cheers!

5 minutes ago, Luke said:

You are assigning a level of significance to these actions that isn't backed by the evidence. I could probably put down a pre-order and a "non-refundable deposit" of, say, $10k an aircraft. It gives Boom some PR and gives the airlines some optionality, but in the grand scheme of things isn't particularly significant.

Same goes with whatever "partnerships" Boom has with other aerospace companies. If this is really such a sure thing, they could easily invest $200m or so in terms of a minority ownership stake. They haven't.

Cheers!

But the artist's renderings look absolutely amazing!!  Almost lifelike!! 😁

15 hours ago, Chock said:

Having now received 30 million dollars from my business deal this morning, I decided to invest it in developing my own supersonic airliner. It's still early days, I only designed it a minute ago, but already I have matched BOOM's level of progress, by doing my own concept drawing of an aeroplane and not actually building anything yet, which is where they are at the moment as well, so progress has been fairly rapid. By this afternoon I expect to surpass their efforts by knocking something up in my shed, so I present to you the impressive concept drawing of the new KABOOM X1000:

 

This sounds like an amazing business opportunity! I have $23.42 left to invest in that once in a lifetime opportunity I’ve waited for so long to  see. Is this enough to buy me in?

Edited August 19, 20223 yr by Patco Lch

11 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

This sounds like an amazing business opportunity! I have $23.42 left to invest in that once in a lifetime opportunity I’ve waited for so long to  see. Is this enough to buy me in?

Not only is it enough, it in fact would make you a major investor in the operation. I will put you in touch with our financial advisor - Prince Faruq Damilola of the International Trustworthy Bank of Nigeria - who will doubtless be delighted to discuss your desire to send him your bank details - erm, I mean wisely invest - some of your money.

Edited August 19, 20223 yr by Chock

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Not only is it enough, it in fact would make you a major investor in the operation. I will put you in touch with our financial advisor - Prince Faruq Damilola of the International Trustworthy Bank of Nigeria - who will doubtless be delighted to discuss your desire to send him your bank details - erm, I mean wisely invest - some of your money.

Telephone number 419.........?

16 hours ago, Luke said:

You are assigning a level of significance to these actions that isn't backed by the evidence. I could probably put down a pre-order and a "non-refundable deposit" of, say, $10k an aircraft. 

 

Think you'd find it's a lot more than 10K. AA put down a 10 million deposit for a few electric air taxi's recently.

I still maintain that it's highly unlikely that the three major airlines that signed this deal, just woke up one morning and thought, "that's cool, let's sign a deal for a laugh". They won't have done this without some consideration for the viability. 

It happens all the time on forums when new projects are manifest and deals signed. All manner of "forum experts" materialise, claim it's not viable, claim it's a funding con, claim it's a PR stunt and all manner of non-expert speculation. 

 

Quote

If this is really such a sure thing

 

Nobody said its a sure thing. My reply was in response to the suggestion that there aren't routes and that theres no requirement to whizz across the Atlantic anymore..

They will have given this consideration before signing the deal is all I'm saying. So personally, my approach is to keep an open mind, recognise I have no inside knowledge and that there's a good chance that the three major airlines aren't as dumb as forum experts maintain.

Edited August 19, 20223 yr by martin-w

14 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I doubt that rich celebrities will choose to fly on this as opposed to a luxury private jet, even it it makes the trip a few hours shorter.

My guess is that this plane is aimed at the upper middle class folks who can't quite afford to fly private jet charters, but can afford a $5K ticket on a supersonic airliner and then brag to their friends about it.  Business execs are likely another big market for this, as well as high-ranking military staff.

It definitely ain't for the common folk.

Dave

 

You might be right re celebrities. Quite a few celebrities flew on Concorde of course. But yes, businessmen (and women 🙂) are likely to be customers. Time is money as they say. 😁

I don't really give a toss who gets to fly in it. I just want to see it happen!

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

Think you'd find it's a lot more than 10K. AA put down a 10 million deposit for a few electric air taxi's recently.

Do you have a citation for that $10m number? I have a press release that says AA has agreed to make pre-delivery payments on 50 but no specific amount. The release also mentions that AA pre-ordered 250 last year, but the fact that they release a new PR to talk about pre-delivery payments (on only a fifth of the pre-order) suggests that no money changed hands earlier, and the fact that they're not stating the amount suggests it is low, not high.

(I see they got $10m for UA - what I don't see is whether it is refundable or not, or any other terms. This could be a situation where it's essentially a loan to give UA some PR, a little more income than the cash markets and the air taxi manufacturer has some float to meet debt covenant restrictions or something else of value.)

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

I still maintain that it's highly unlikely that the three major airlines that signed this deal, just woke up one morning and thought, "that's cool, let's sign a deal for a laugh". They won't have done this without some consideration for the viability. 

I would imagine they have done a significant amount of consideration for the viability, and that directly affects how much money actually changes hands (hint: it's not much). The driver is optionality, and for subsequent airlines it's likely PR. If handing Boom an amount of money similar to a network TV ad buy gives them good PR and "ooh supersonic aircraft ... cool!" mindshare with consumers, good. But everyone seems to be very cagey around the amounts actually changing hands. If the numbers were big, they'd be publicized.

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

It happens all the time on forums when new projects are manifest and deals signed. All manner of "forum experts" materialise, claim it's not viable, claim it's a funding con, claim it's a PR stunt and all manner of non-expert speculation. 

The reason for that is that the success rate is very, very low - and the odds of getting more funding decrease as the cost of capital rises.

This is fundamentally a play in the premium or ultra-premium market - and there is a major limit on that market's size. If Delta could fit an A339 with an all-D1 cabin they'd do so in a heartbeat because the profit margins on those fares are so huge. The fact that they (or any other airline) do not do so suggests that the market is quite limited. The fact that I now cannot upgrade to D1 with upgrade certs as a high-end Medallion member also suggests that they need help to drive up demand.

It's not me being a negative Nelly, it's just having a decent understanding of the economics of that market and having read a lot of vaporware press releases.

Cheers!