When i first started playing with MSFS a lot of things didn’t work, so I did little more than start at a runway and fly direct via the AP to another airport. Then i started using SimBrief to provide a more realistic flight plan. Eventually i started flying from a “cold and dark” state, just to up the immersion. I request external power, as i think that might be what actual pilots need to do sometimes. I then turned off the taxi ribbon to learn how to navigate the ground at an airport. That led me to purchasing the taxiway upgrade so i could actually read and follow the signs. Lately i have been handling the comms with ATC, to understand more about how that works.

It is a gradual process, as i don’t have a ton of time to dedicate to this hobby. So I am looking for ways to continue to build my knowledge and increase the immersion. I am wondering about the next steps. I am looking for ideas, but i am really looking for gradual changes. I am not ready for VATSIM but i know eventually i will get there. 

For example, i imagine that real pilots of say a Caravan might use an online flight planning tool, but do they import these flight plans into the ac like i do now? I doubt that facility exists in most planes. I am thinking they do some initial planning, then submit the flight plan to the ATC at the airport, but i don’t really know. I also imagine they have to manually input the flight plan into the plane, as opposed to importing files. If manually inputting the flight plan is what real pilots do, then i want to start adding that to my routine. If they have to file a flight plan with ATC first, then maybe i get an ATC add-on that incorporates that into the workflow. It is another step to increase immersion and come closer to an actual simulation. This is what draws me to study level aircraft. I want as close as possible to the real thing. Right now i am staying away from PMDG because i want to get things close to accurate with easier aircraft. But eventually i will probably get there too. 

I guess i am trying to understand how the process actually works in real life, and then slowly align my workflow towards that to provide the closest simulation experience possible. 

Thanks for the help. 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you've got over 1,400 posts, you must have something figured out already! 😄

 

In real life, it's far simpler. Going off of the Caravan example, different companies do things their own way. Generally, they'd probably stop by the office to print up their flight plan and weight and balance. They'd get to the plane, call the fuel truck, preflight, and wait for the cargo/passengers. In the mean time, they'd get the weather and review any pertinent NOTAMS. Depending on whether they're flying VFR or IFR, they'd get clearance before the passengers arrive and be ready to go by the time they're all situated. Once everyone is onboard, load the flight plan; it could be saved already in the GPS if it's a canned route, otherwise just load it manually after getting the engine started. Once that's all done, you're on your way.

What I'd recommend is getting comfortable with the aircraft before taking it out on a "mission." Get familiar with the normal procedures for the plane. Do some stalls, steep turns, simulated engine failures, etc. When you feel comfortable and confident flying the plane the right way, the other stuff kinda falls in naturally. After learning how to operate it properly, there you can add your own style to the way you run your show. Most of all, enjoy the experience for everything you fly. It's easy to let this hobby become another chore, and lose sight of why it's enjoyable in the first place. Learning keeps things interesting.

Thanks for the help. Regarding posts, quantity over quality? 😆

But in all seriousness i am putting the pieces together, but some of the things i may be learning might not be very realistic. The things you mentioned help me visualize the process better, so thanks again for that. I also like your idea about getting familiar with the normal procedures of the plane. Because i am not a pilot i guess i just don’t know what i don’t know. I love the journey and the learning is so rewarding. I just want to learn the right things that apply to real life. 

The more i dig into MSFS the more respect i gain for real life pilots. There is a lot to learn and this stuff can get pretty complex at times. Real life pilots are pretty awesome to be able to do this stuff. 

I’m not a pilot so take this with a grain of salt. 
 

Based on what I’ve learnt on forums and other sources, real world commercial pilots do both more and less than us sim pilots.  
 

All the route planning is done by a central dispatcher (for larger airlines at least) and the pilot doesn’t really need to do that themselves. In fact in many modern airliners the route is loaded automatically. So in that respect they do less. No need to mess with 
 

However, what a pilot really does is know the plane to the nth degree - so that if/when a failure happens, their training kicks in and they know what to do to land the plane safely. 
 

A normal routine flight isn’t so different from a sim flight, but the slightest abnormality (unexpected weather, changes at the destination airport forcing a reroute, or a failure) and that’s when a real pilot will leave us simmers in the dust. 
 

A family friend used to fly 737s for a large airliner, and I would see him reading the FCOM(probably - was a very large binder with all the systems and procedures for the plane) before EVERY flight. He had it memorized but would still read it the night before. 

again, not a real world pilot, just my impressions.

3 hours ago, FlyingGoose said:

A normal routine flight isn’t so different from a sim flight, but the slightest abnormality (unexpected weather, changes at the destination airport forcing a reroute, or a failure) and that’s when a real pilot will leave us simmers in the dust. 
 

 

Well said.. my thoughts exactly.. I do a pretty decent job simulating airline ops from A to B.. but the moment some real life uncertainties are thrown in (like ATC vectoring me instead of my predefined STAR, change in winds causing change in RWY+STAR), AI traffic blocking the rwy forcing a go around and doing a hold, etc..) I'm thrown out of gear and I usually mess things up after that.. the real amateurish simmer in me comes out then.. 😆

4 hours ago, V1ROTA7E said:

Most of all, enjoy the experience for everything you fly. It's easy to let this hobby become another chore, and lose sight of why it's enjoyable in the first place.

This 100%!

A lot of simmers, me included, chase the ambition of making their simulated operations "as real as it gets" - and as long as that's fun, great!

But gradually, and often unnoticed, the quest for realism can turn from an adventure of discovery into a burdensome duty. You feel like a flight doesn't "count" unless you're doing every little detail a real pilot would. Simming starts to feel like work. It's happened to me and I suspect many others too. 

So by all means, continue to chase reality and learn, but check yourself from time to time to make sure you're still having fun.

Other thoughts:

VATSIM: You'll never feel like you're ready. Just do it. It's the only way to really learn.

A lot of Garmin installations do actually have the ability to upload your flight plan wirelessly from your tablet, so don't feel like you need to input it by hand.

Turboprops like the Caravan are actually more challenging and rewarding than jets in some ways. You can't simply fly above the weather, and ice protection is usually less capable, so you need to think more about the weather and react en route if necessary.

Have fun learning - it's a neverending journey! 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by martinboehme
Typo

3 minutes ago, martinboehme said:

So by all means, continue to chase reality and learn, but check yourself from time to time to make sure you're still having fun.

The Fun factor. That big forgotten. 

2 hours ago, Japo32 said:

The Fun factor. That big forgotten.

Indeed!
I hardly ever fly by the numbers, FAA rules or whatever.
Just finished a helicopter flight from Meiringen to Axalp and back. Both sceneries are available on .to. Did some nice overshoots over the crowd and some sightseeing.
Two things I learned:

• A helicopter of the Cabri class has troubles at such heights  (piston engine or is it me? 🙂).
• The walk to the top IRL will take much longer for me because of the breathtaking sights which I want to photograph. 😎

The sim/game is whatever you want it to be, it's kind of the ultimate Open World MMORG - the pocket protector crowd wants to fly "by the numbers", some kind on a sofa just wants to "buzz" his house - many do both. You can do
whatever you want without any repercusssions whatsoever. 

4 hours ago, martinboehme said:

This 100%!

A lot of simmers, me included, chase the ambition of making their simulated operations "as real as it gets" - and as long as that's fun, great!

But gradually, and often unnoticed, the quest for realism can turn from an adventure of discovery into a burdensome duty. You feel like a flight doesn't "count" unless you're doing every little detail a real pilot would. Simming starts to feel like work. It's happened to me and I suspect many others too. 

So by all means, continue to chase reality and learn, but check yourself from time to time to make sure you're still having fun.

Other thoughts:

VATSIM: You'll never feel like you're ready. Just do it. It's the only way to really learn.

A lot of Garmin installations do actually have the ability to upload your flight plan wirelessly from your tablet, so don't feel like you need to input it by hand.

Turboprops like the Caravan are actually more challenging and rewarding than jets in some ways. You can't simply fly above the weather, and ice protection is usually less capable, so you need to think more about the weather and react en route if necessary.

Have fun learning - it's a neverending journey! 

Thanks for the advice. I hear you regarding chasing realistic vs becoming a chore. If it starts to become a chore i can always use the shortcuts, but knowing i know how to do it in real life is what matters to me. Good to know that some Garmin can import from tablets. That is the info i am looking for. 

7 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

The sim/game is whatever you want it to be, it's kind of the ultimate Open World MMORG - the pocket protector crowd wants to fly "by the numbers", some kind on a sofa just wants to "buzz" his house - many do both. You can do
whatever you want without any repercusssions whatsoever. 

That is another great thing about MSFS. You can get as real or as arcady as you want, even in the same flight. I started out more arcady but the desire to learn how to do it by the book has slowly crept in. It is an amazing piece of software, and flying is fascinating on many levels. 

10 minutes ago, RobJC said:

That is another great thing about MSFS. You can get as real or as arcady as you want, even in the same flight. I started out more arcady but the desire to learn how to do it by the book has slowly crept in. It is an amazing piece of software, and flying is fascinating on many levels. 

I pointed this out at the first announcement of MSFS when some folks looked sceptically down on our new X-Box friends.

Scalability has been the base for the success of the whole Microsoft Flight Simulator franchise from its beginning. It's never been pure arcade nor a procedure simulator but just opens the possibility to rise from a sightseer to an airline captain within the same ecosystem and some of the addons you collected, as far as these are required at all.

Microsoft did very well to proceed on this path. The only missing element from the past in this regard is the excellent documentation coming with former releases, and the Aircraft and Avionics Update stresses this even more.

Kind regards, Michael

13 minutes ago, pmb said:

Microsoft did very well to proceed on this path. The only missing element from the past in this regard is the excellent documentation coming with former releases, and the Aircraft and Avionics Update stresses this even more.

I agree. I’m even thinking maybe there should be ‘light’ editions of those aircraft available. Imagine a new comer jumping in to one of these high fidelity default planes now…. Mind boggling! 

1 hour ago, pmb said:

I pointed this out at the first announcement of MSFS when some folks looked sceptically down on our new X-Box friends.

I never understood (or condoned) this skepticism towards the XBOX.

For me, the XBOX has always been strictly a tool. I bought an XBOX 360 when Gears of War was released, because that was the only way you could play it. 

My XBOX 360 is now collecting dust somewhere in my basement because the games I now play are mostly released on PC.

However, if a game I wanted to play, say, Half Life 3, were to be released XBOX only, you bet I'll be going to Best Buy first thing in the morning. 

Finally, we have MSFS 2020 with default study level avionics BECAUSE of the economic potential the XBOX delivers. 

Great thread! The possibilities of how to use the sim is endless. Nowadays I do a lot of airliner flying (Fenix, A310). I use the checklists (I tend to forget stuff) but I don't do every single item in the cockpit preparation workflow. I have failures disabled. I also use FS2Crew which adds to the immersion as it simulates multi-crew operations, albeit in a very oversimplified way. 

There's quite a few real airliner pilots with youtube channels so that's a great way of learning more in-depth stuff, including failures. I remember some videos by Into the Blue Simulations, including one with the Black Square King Air where he simulated an engine failure after takeoff from Milford Sound. Very impressive! Also there's a recent one with the Fenix. 

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by Cpt_Piett