Quote

We are now 5 months past pre release...development is slow.

I have to agree on this. While I do see some improvements in the atmospherics department, it's still slow. But then the other sim also took a long time to fix their weather and as far as I know there's still issues they haven't addressed. And they have a much bigger team and much more money to spend.

13 hours ago, GoranM said:

28 updates in 5 months.

You're right.  Way too slow.

I don't know how they stay in business.

Maybe they should do the 1 update per month method.  Oh wait.  That would make them even slower.

Quality vs quantity...quick fixes does not advance a sim; and it certainly can't be compared to a 1 month approach that includes fixes, major feature implementations, and new free content.

LR is simply patching 2019 advancements that they are just getting around to implementing....

Where are the cloud light reflections at night? As i said, development is slow.

 

13 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Confirmed, you will never be happy.  You couldn't find it within yourself to post a single positive image from this update, in fact, I have never seen anything positive from you on this forum ever.  It makes me incredibly sad that your comments probably have to be read by those at LR who have done such an amazing job with this 12.04 update. As I have said previously, this is just about the biggest jump forward I have ever seen in a flight sim.  I just hope my positive comments can somehow alleviate the negativity people like yourself bring to this forum.

Not so, I would not be happy if I had upgraded to XP12 only to wait years for LR to patch it to 2019 standards.

"It makes me incredibly sad"... guys get over this emotional nonsense. We are posters sharing our opinion about a product.

"I just hope my positive comments"... I just hope that the criticism keeps LR on track and not let them slide by like all those years of stagnant development. Development is still slow and behind the status quo; and the majority (at least from the stat sources I have seen) have not even bothered to upgrade....some 5 months later.

10 hours ago, turbomax said:

is that so?

It is so, yes.

See, you keep posting screenshots of clouds lit with very low sun angles. Black/dark clouds are going to be normal then. Even dark grey tones are going to show up now and then. Still plausible to a large degree.

In full daylight, I have yet to see clouds in XP12 that make me wonder where the fallout ash is blowing in from, as I've regularly seen in other sims (TM).

 

15 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Well if he is still on XP11 like the majority of steam users, then I think it is safe to say that LR has not done enough to move their XP11 users over to XP12. We need to see more progress with the clouds, especially at night.

We are now 5 months past pre release...development is slow.

I'm trying to count here... there's 2? 3? people with their hands directly in the weather simulation and prediction? That's not to mention the other things they are actively maintaining. Few hands make heavy work.

What is most amusing is that folks seem to think that publicly throwing their toys out of the crib will actually help LR achieve their goals, without a shred of evidence to suggest that LR is out resting on their beach chairs instead of writing code.

It's also amusing to see so many folks stay with LR products, past and present. 

I believe graphics-wise they're getting better with each new update.

At the same time they're also doing a lot in the back-end in order to integrate observation with forecasts, and simulate in more detail some local phenomena, like mechanical turbulence, convection, etc... It's progressing at a good pace lately.

This last update has been very positive for me in bringing weather parameters like wind and temperature to the higher levels of troposphere and into the stratosphere, and has also introduced a variable tropopause height.

It's in the right track, and I think reaching cruise speed... They still have many other areas to address.

I believe further ahead we will have clouds at night, and I also think the default ATC robot will get better and towards a really interesting and useful representation of the main functionalities of a generic multi-purpose ATC system.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by cagarini

5 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Quality vs quantity...quick fixes does not advance a sim; and it certainly can't be compared to a 1 month approach that includes fixes, major feature implementations

So 28 updates, done by a team of about 20, is negated due to the size of the update?  That's your logic?  Knowing what each update includes, after seeing the release notes.  Gotcha.

5 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

and new free content.

Done by 3rd parties.  

5 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

LR is simply patching 2019 advancements that they are just getting around to implementing....

THAT recent??!!  At least that's an upgrade from other people claiming they're using tech from over 10 years ago.  Can you list the advancements that were made in this genre between 2019 and today?

5 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Where are the cloud light reflections at night?

I could check on the status of that.

5 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

As i said, development is slow.

Safe to say X-Plane 12 will be fully updated and stable within the next 3-5 years.  Under a 20 man team.  In 10 years, X-Plane 14 will be half way through it's version run.  The other one has a 10 year update run.  Backed by a trillion dollar company.  With over 300 staff.  Yeah.  Laminar is really slow.  I don't know how they manage to stay in competition.

🤦‍♂️

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by GoranM

23 hours ago, GoranM said:

Long, long?  Not just “long”?

At least they don’t look like a volcano erupted nearby. 

Or even floating grey sponges.. 😆😆

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

So 28 updates, done by a team of about 20, is negated due to the size of the update?  That's your logic?  Knowing what each update includes, after seeing the release notes.  Gotcha.

Nope, 28 updates to patch 2019 standard features is no great thing to brag about.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Done by 3rd parties.  

Yep, collaboration with other developers, another thing that LR does not do effectively. Thanks for pointing out another shortfall of LR.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

THAT recent??!!  At least that's an upgrade from other people claiming they're using tech from over 10 years ago.  Can you list the advancements that were made in this genre between 2019 and today?

I think you know that list well, you just can't find any of those advancements in XP12.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

I could check on the status of that.

No need, you checking on the status does not change the fact the that in 2023, XP12 struggles to at least reach the status quo.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Safe to say X-Plane 12 will be fully updated and stable within the next 3-5 years.  Under a 20 man team.  In 10 years, X-Plane 14 will be half way through it's version run.

Hey, you were the one earlier claiming that XP12 was on the drawing board since the first week of XP11’s release. And yet XP12 was not released until 2022. I think that speaks to the slow development that mirrors the timeline you painted above…

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

The other one has a 10 year update run.  Backed by a trillion dollar company.  With over 300 staff.  Yeah.  Laminar is really slow.  I don't know how they manage to stay in competition.

It must really be fun to draw these futile comparisons to somehow cover for the fact that XP12 has not moved the needle much; and LR struggles to move its own base from XP11.

 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by OverTheEDJ

22 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

It must really be fun to draw these futile comparisons

Now if that ain't a textbook case of the kettle calling the pot black, I don't know what is.

20 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Nope, 28 updates to patch 2019 standard features is no great thing to brag about.

That’s because you have no idea what those features are. 
 

21 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

 

Yep, collaboration with other developers, another thing that LR does not do effectively. Thanks for pointing out another shortfall of LR.

Money talks.  In one case, an X-Plane dev team poached by Asobo.  They couldn’t even get an MSFS dev team to do it.

Laminar don’t do these things. 
 

23 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I think you know that list well, you just can't find any of those advancements in XP12.

I do. I just want to see if you do. You don’t have to show me. It’s obvious you don’t.  
 

 

25 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

No need, you checking on the status does not change the fact the that in 2023, XP12 struggles to at least reach the status quo.

And still, it’s outsold all other previous versions of X-Plane in the time period it’s been out. Pretty good for a struggling platform. 
 

 

26 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

Hey, you were the one earlier claiming that XP12 was on the drawing board since the first week of XP11’s release. And yet XP12 was not released until 2022. I think that speaks to the slow development that mirrors the timeline you painted above…

Indeed. But you seem to have missed the fact that MSFS was in development for 7 years before release. Backed by a trillion dollar company and worked on by a 300 person team. Thanks for reminding me. 
 

28 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

It must really be fun to draw these futile comparisons to somehow cover for the fact that XP12 has not moved the needle much; and LR struggles to move its own base from XP11.

Like the person above me posted. Pot. Meet kettle. 
 

Regardless what you post, and no matter how much you tell yourself that X-Plane is useless, it’s here. It’s here for 25 years. Never closed its doors. Never been sold to other corporations. Never controlled by a corporation that is owned by shareholders. 
So if you want to keep telling yourself, and others, how X-Plane is behind everything, you go do that. I’m going back to enjoying my freedom of choice, while not trolling forums, in the guise of “offering my opinion”.  

39 minutes ago, GoranM said:

’m going back to enjoying my freedom of choice, while not trolling forums, in the guise of “offering my opinion”.  

I think you nailled it, it must be a troll.  Nobody would use software hated that much.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

That’s because you have no idea what those features are. 

So say you. In reality, it has been nothing worth an upgrade at this point for many.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Money talks

Do you mean paying for an upgrade to get 2019 features that should have been a free update in the XP11 cycle...

Hint: Many XP11 users aren’t talking…

 

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

And still, it’s outsold all other previous versions of X-Plane in the time period it’s been out. Pretty good for a struggling platform. 

And still, there are 3x more XP11 users on steam than XP12.

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Indeed. But you seem to have missed the fact that MSFS was in development for 7 years before release. Backed by a trillion dollar company and worked on by a 300 person team. Thanks for reminding me. 

You might want to bring that issue up on the MSFS forum…

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Like the person above me posted. Pot. Meet kettle. 
 

Regardless what you post, and no matter how much you tell yourself that X-Plane is useless, it’s here. It’s here for 25 years. Never closed its doors. Never been sold to other corporations. Never controlled by a corporation that is owned by shareholders. 
So if you want to keep telling yourself, and others, how X-Plane is behind everything, you go do that. I’m going back to enjoying my freedom of choice, while not trolling forums, in the guise of “offering my opinion”.  

Pot, meet kettle...

 

🥱

4 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

6 hours ago, GoranM said:

And still, it’s outsold all other previous versions of X-Plane in the time period it’s been out. Pretty good for a struggling platform. 

And still, there are 3x more XP11 users on steam than XP12.

Wow, LR have done well - to think XP12 has outsold previous versions AND there are 3x more XP11 users - a solid user base!

I still use XP11 for aircraft that haven't yet been updated to XP12. I wonder how many others do the same? The rate of new/updated aircraft is increasing all the time.

It puzzles me why you use XP12 when you hate it so much. Personally I wouldn't be using it, let alone post on a forum about it

7 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I think you know that list well, you just can't find any of those advancements in XP12.

not to interrupt your enthralling insight.

But 2019 was around the time most xplane conversation and 3PD updates moved to discord, and most people left were hooked on promises by microsoft.

If you aren't on discord and were mostly watching and waiting for other sims, chances are you missed pretty much everything that happened in the xplane universe and flight sim in general since then.

XP has come a very very very long way from

 

Edited February 19, 20233 yr by mSparks