1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

The current numbers are not that good for XP12 imho:

otoh,

"OMG the Clouds!"

only really started last Saturday, still has some way to go, and even the numbers prior to this update are fairly phenomenal when you consider that is an average of >200 people of every minute of every day playing XP12 on hardware they just spent $2000+ sometime in the last two years, (perhaps more, given just a decent GPU would cost that this time last year), or managed to get their hands on one of the few million steam decks that sold since launch, on a platform where they are competing for time with pretty much every AAA title released in the last 2 decades.

It took DCS 4 years to achieve a similar player base XP12 has achieved in basically 2 months.

The only way that would be "not good" is if they also blew the GDP of a small country on advertising it to every women man and child east and west of the international date line, like, say.....

9 minutes ago, flying_carpet said:

Oh no ... not this BS again ... The current numbers are not that good for Porsche imho compared to Toyota, Chevrolet and Ford: https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2022-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-brand/ . I'm afraid, Porsche will die ... 😆

 

Are you really comparing MSFS to Ford and XP to Porsche? A typical Porsche costs around 10x more than a Ford, whereas MSFS and XP cost the same. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they are both fighting for the same market here. The roadmap for new advanced aircraft that I want to fly in MSFS is huge and I wished the same was true in XP's side.

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by GCBraun

11 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

A typical Porsche costs around 10x more than a Ford

well, erm, maybe... maybe not....

https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/gt

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/porsche/macan

quite looking forward to when these start dropping for XP12

was a lovely way to lose a few evenings in XP11.

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

The current numbers are not that good for XP12 imho:

Every single social media forum I see, has people recommending to buy X-Plane direct from Laminar.  That way it supports Laminar directly.  Then it would make sense that Steam numbers aren't that high.  But let's flip it.  Let's say X-Plane 12 isn't selling as much as X-Plane 11 (which it already has for the time period, but let's go hypothetical), then what?  What happens?  Laminar is run out of Austin's house.  So no office space to rent.  The hardware used is a bunch of Apple computers.  That's it.  Everyone who works at Laminar do so from home. I don't understand why it's such a big deal that X-Plane isn't as popular as MSFS.  It never has been.  

There are millions of restaurants in the world.  Some make less than others.  They're still in business.  

Take a Ferrari and a Lambourghini.  Who sells more?  (I don't know) But who cares?  They've both been in business for decades.  Chevy and Ford.  Audi and Mercedes.  Honda and Mazda.  Tesla and Rivian.  It doesn't matter.  If they're profitable, they'll continue.  Laminar are profitable.  To the point Austin has hired more staff.  There are no shareholders to answer to. No Board of Directors to answer to.  It's Austin.  That's it.  

Can we just enjoy X-Plane, and stop worrying about Laminar?  I think I remember Austin saying in a video that X-Plane makes $3 million/year profit.  After all expenses are paid.  Safe to say it's not going anywhere.

No matter what I read, my own experience, and comparison to RW (counting 42+ years of flying for real) is what can make me prefer this or that sim over the other...

I don't mind that much about marketing numbers, sometimes hugely manipulated / biased.

What I know for sure is, I would rather not have spent the time and money I did in other platforms in the last two years to finally reach the conclusion all I had to / should have done was being a bit more patient and wait for XP12 to (actually very rapidly regarding the features that are more important to me) reach the level of performance and quality it did just 6 months after release.

Thanksfully 12.04 b2 came right on time, together with some great updates of aircraft I really enjoyed in XP11 and can now use in XP12 without having spent a cent on the upgrade!

I am looking forward for PSXPL and being able to use Arowinx PSX with XP12 visuals too!

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by cagarini

Impressive clouds thunderstorms and weather formations are the most important thing in a flight simulator. Have you seen the impressive things the developers have done with the DCS clouds two years ago or so, it´s remarkable and on par with MSFS visuals now 🙂

And XP12 will get absolute impressive cloud upgrades (and some time later complete weather overhauls and photorealistic cloud-addons like REX) too.

3 minutes ago, JetCat said:

XP12 will get absolute impressive cloud upgrades

and in the meantime?

2 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Are you really comparing MSFS to Ford and XP to Porsche? A typical Porsche costs around 10x more than a Ford, whereas MSFS and XP cost the same. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they are both fighting for the same market here. The roadmap for new advanced aircraft that I want to fly in MSFS is huge and I wished the same was true in XP's side.

I could have chosen a different comparison (as I did already earlier or Goran further above). But as I don't have the sales figures of my local gourmet restaurant at hand for comparing with e.g. McDonalds, I did the lower hanging fruits with Porsche, Chevy, Toyota and Ford.

But if you want a more comprehensive comparison, to tell that sales figures and also prices don't tell you anything about the quality of a product - here you go: subscription of The Sun costs you £55 a year, subscription of (e.g.) Air-Britain News costs you only £50 a year. I.e. The Air-Britain News is even cheaper and still maaany more people are reading The Sun. With the logic "more sales* and even higher price tells you everything ..." The Sun would be the higher quality product of these both.

* I must admit, I also don't have the sales figures of The Air-Britain News at hand, but I would even bet my grandma that they are lower than the ones of The Sun (despite the lower price).

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

Every single social media forum I see, has people recommending to buy X-Plane direct from Laminar.  That way it supports Laminar directly.  Then it would make sense that Steam numbers aren't that high.  But let's flip it.  Let's say X-Plane 12 isn't selling as much as X-Plane 11 (which it already has for the time period, but let's go hypothetical), then what?  What happens?  Laminar is run out of Austin's house.  So no office space to rent.  The hardware used is a bunch of Apple computers.  That's it.  Everyone who works at Laminar do so from home. I don't understand why it's such a big deal that X-Plane isn't as popular as MSFS.  It never has been.  

There are millions of restaurants in the world.  Some make less than others.  They're still in business.  

Take a Ferrari and a Lambourghini.  Who sells more?  (I don't know) But who cares?  They've both been in business for decades.  Chevy and Ford.  Audi and Mercedes.  Honda and Mazda.  Tesla and Rivian.  It doesn't matter.  If they're profitable, they'll continue.  Laminar are profitable.  To the point Austin has hired more staff.  There are no shareholders to answer to. No Board of Directors to answer to.  It's Austin.  That's it.  

Can we just enjoy X-Plane, and stop worrying about Laminar?  I think I remember Austin saying in a video that X-Plane makes $3 million/year profit.  After all expenses are paid.  Safe to say it's not going anywhere.

I just think that such a huge disparity in user base will lead to a decrease in the numbers of quality add-ons developed for XP, just like it happened with P3D. Hope to be wrong.

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by GCBraun

14 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I just think that such a huge disparity in user base will lead to a decrease in the numbers of quality add-ons developed for XP, just like it happened with P3D. Hope to be wrong.

Hmmm, I actually believe we will see a different tendency...

I wonder if some of the developers who "migrated" to MFS will not eventually return to XP, at least embracing both platforms. 

As the development of core features and stability increase I believe more aircraft addons will become available, including but surely not only the migrations from XP11 versions.

In the last week I was able to install in XP12 some of my preferred XP11 aircraft, and can now run them in the new version benefiting from the many new features & details.

It wouldn't surprise me that devs like Inibuilds return back to XP sooner than later...

The sooner a weather SDK is made available the faster I hope that, for instance HiFi Simulation Technologies can bring ASXP for XP12! 

 

 

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by cagarini

33 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I just think that such a huge disparity in user base will lead to a decrease in the numbers of quality add-ons developed for XP, just like it happened with P3D. Hope to be wrong.

Ok, in that case, I can see the point you are trying to make.  But rest assured, the developers that have been in X-Plane in the recent or distant past, are, for the most part, still here, and still making add ons.  The one's who aren't making add ons any longer, have gone on to other employment.  Getting established as a developer is not an easy task, and can take years.

There has been only 1 dev team that has included MSFS in their dev cycle, and that is inibuilds.  The Laminar Slack group is still heavily active with developers providing feedback for XP12, including Saso (coder for the CL650) who has been in discussions with LR about adding SVS and weather radar functionality.  

The workflows are incredibly different between platforms, and XP developers have become very accustomed to make add ons for X-Plane.  As long as they can make a living, they're happy.  In some cases, developers are happy making a regular 9-5 type wage.  In other cases, like the airliners, those add ons are selling extraordinarily well.  

 

 

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by GoranM

Considering the exaggerated excitement from the OP, this screens ended up being a bit disappointing. Resolution is still very low and the weird molar looking formations and others are still there. Still, I will say it is a very big improvement over what was on offer at launch.

@GoranM I hope you realize that you were the one who kicked off the ridiculous comparisons unprovoked, only to turn around and complain when people returned the favor. Brand loyalty is one thing but as a commercial vendor I think you really need to take a step back and think about how you look when you go on the offensive/defensive the way you do. You probably won't care about about my opinion but I'll put it out there anyway.

6 hours ago, GCBraun said:

While on landing..."why did you buy it if you don't like it? you had your free trial period. this ins an extreme very rare case. can you not ever say something positive?"

simply make sure to land before 5:30 p.m. and it will look like this:

"Magical!  Whatever LR are paying the weather team, it isn't enough"

😀

 

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by turbomax

1 minute ago, turbomax said:

6 hours ago, GCBraun said:

why did you buy it if you don't like it? you had your free triail period. this ins an extreme very rare case. can you not ever say something positive?

simply make sure to land before 5:30 p.m. and it will look like this:

 

Who said I don't like it? I am just pointing out that there is room for improvement.

11 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Who said I don't like it? I am just pointing out that there is room for improvement.

I thought my irony was more than clear? these were all quotes from Goran et. al. 😀

"I am just pointing out that there is room for improvement."

exactly, like I and a few others did. but that is not what they want to hear here, therefore and I am only quoting again "can you not say something positve at least once". 😀 it would make them happy.

"Turbomax and ..... really need to take a long hard look at yourselves."

long and hard?

Edited February 20, 20233 yr by turbomax