Over a year later and this dark cockpit fake eye adaption issue is still present. <sigh>

It’s not fake.  Eyes adjust to darkness and light, and that is simulated. 

5 hours ago, VeryBumpy said:

Over a year later and this dark cockpit fake eye adaption issue is still present. <sigh>

As Goran says thats exactly how the eye works, but doesnt work well when people are string at a flat screen and never move there  view. They also mentioned it causing other lighting issues they are trying to address, But basically the have to make it unrealistic to work, And yet we all demand realism. I use trakir and have no issues with cockpit lighting.

6 hours ago, VeryBumpy said:

Over a year later and this dark cockpit fake eye adaption issue is still present. <sigh>

As I replied to you on another thread just yesterday, they're working on it on the very next release.

On 9/23/2024 at 4:57 AM, GoranM said:

It’s not fake.  Eyes adjust to darkness and light, and that is simulated. 

But it is not well simulated in a lot of people's opinion... and I think that is the main issue.

This video below shows a focus on outside view and indeed clearly shows a darker cockpit but not to the point where the whole panel looks pitch black.
https://fb.watch/uUXrfbotXp/

4 hours ago, Sylle said:

But it is not well simulated in a lot of people's opinion... and I think that is the main issue.

That's just it.  It's down to peoples opinion.  

Austin has always maintained that he is more than happy to make changes in anything within X-Plane, as long as those changes are backed up by actual numbers and correct information.   He gets countless emails from people telling him there are things in X-Plane that are wrong, with nothing to back up their opinion.  Those emails go unanswered.  On occasion, he'll receive an email to correct something, with actual data to back it up, and, after verifying it, he adds the fixes.  

If someone can provide lighting information for the eye adjustment, he'll look into it.

 

Hi Goran,

But who can provide eye adjustment data if we are so many humans with different perceptions? A very subjective issue perhaps. What seems to be so bright for me, maybe won't be for others. For that reason, maybe a settings option could be made for adjusting this feature, or simply a on off toggle option. Like on for new XP12 cockpit exposure and off like it was in XP11, however don't know if you developers already introduced custom cockpit light adaptations for mitigating or enhancing this new cockpit exposure that won't get along with such possible settings options.

28 minutes ago, alexcolka said:

But who can provide eye adjustment data if we are so many humans with different perceptions?

Exactly.  It's not possible because everyone's eyes are different.  For me, it's a case of "it's close enough for a generic eye adjustment."

When I look outside, I don't even focus on the panel.  If I wanted to, I would set a preset view for IFR and VFR with the numpad.  But that's my workaround.

30 minutes ago, alexcolka said:

For that reason, maybe a settings option could be made for adjusting this feature, or simply a on off toggle option.

I'm sure Austin wouldn't object to adding an on-off setting for it.  The only way to get it in, though, is to email him.  The more emails he gets, the better the chance he'll add it.  

 

8 hours ago, Sylle said:

But it is not well simulated in a lot of people's opinion... and I think that is the main issue.

It works quiet well and i have no issues, but apparently in there last discussion it is affected by some materials etc so needs to be looked at again. If only it was so simple. It never is.

13 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

It works quiet well and i have no issues, but apparently in there last discussion it is affected by some materials etc so needs to be looked at again. If only it was so simple. It never is.

The blog post didn't make it clear but the aforementioned "indirect lighting environment" issue was completely unrelated to exposure fusion. It basically meant to say "exposure fusion related tuning was mostly done, but then we noticed lighting during cloudy days was completely off, so some re-tuning will be needed"

17 hours ago, alexcolka said:

Hi Goran,

But who can provide eye adjustment data if we are so many humans with different perceptions? A very subjective issue perhaps. What seems to be so bright for me, maybe won't be for others. For that reason, maybe a settings option could be made for adjusting this feature, or simply a on off toggle option. Like on for new XP12 cockpit exposure and off like it was in XP11, however don't know if you developers already introduced custom cockpit light adaptations for mitigating or enhancing this new cockpit exposure that won't get along with such possible settings options.

I think the good news here is that humans actually don't have drastically different perceptions (see CIE CMF and other psychophysical experiments). What they have drastically different is preferences. This distinction is important because it means it's possible to find methods that approximate average human perception better, like exposure fusion. Of course preference is whole another thing, but I really believe it's possible to find a perceptually accurate middle ground.

On 9/29/2024 at 2:12 PM, Sylle said:

But it is not well simulated in a lot of people's opinion... and I think that is the main issue.

This video below shows a focus on outside view and indeed clearly shows a darker cockpit but not to the point where the whole panel looks pitch black.
https://fb.watch/uUXrfbotXp/

I think the autoexposure issue they are mentioning is unrelated to this - they are talking about how much the brightness changes when you move the camera. But based on your video I'm assuming you're talking about dark cockpits, which is known and will be fixed in the 12.2.0 update. The dark cockpits are not caused by the autoexposure, it's simply that a global tonemapper cannot represent the dynamic ranges involved in real life in a perceptually correct way. Local tonemappers like exposure fusion addresses these issues much better.

You guys can discuss realism, eye adjustment or perceptions all you want, in this game, I just want to be able to clearly see and read all the gauges while flying in the normal forward cockpit viewpoint.

41 minutes ago, VeryBumpy said:

You guys can discuss realism, eye adjustment or perceptions all you want, in this game, I just want to be able to clearly see and read all the gauges while flying in the normal forward cockpit viewpoint.

There's a reasonably good test for what's going on here now, can you see the difference between these two images:

More of the first is scheduled for 12.2.0

If you can't see the difference between those two shots your problems are with your hardware (I can on my more expensive monitors and in VR, but not my cheapest one).

1 hour ago, VeryBumpy said:

I just want to be able to clearly see and read all the gauges while flying in the normal forward cockpit viewpoint.

One of the difficulties is that not everyone experiences this. I can perfectly read all instruments and don’t have any dark cockpit and/or instruments I cannot read at all. I had this issue only with the early-betas 2 years ago.

However, I have this overexposed sky when part of the cockpit panel is also on my field of view. This results in an extremely bright sky and not being able to see any cloud structure.

I think it’s not that easy to find the right balance but am looking forward to what will change in the planned fix.

Edited September 30, 20241 yr by Franz007