1 hour ago, Will273 said:

Yes...there could be something to what they say but I'd feel more convinced with some verifiable HD video, photos and LIVE reports from the scene.

 

HD video can be faked. Video and witness testimony is interesting and part of the data pool, but its physical evidence that's required to be definitive. 

2 hours ago, Fielder said:

But I just cannot imagine a court will allow a witness to say he's an expert and can tell when someone is lying, and then based on this expertise render his opinion. 

 

I didn't say they could. I said I hoped they couldn't. 

Holmes said something about "however improbable, it must be the truth." So perhaps this would support the reports of aliens on Earth.

Occam reportedly said " “the simplest solution is almost always the best.” This would not support the reports of aliens.

So I guess it's an interesting battle of cliches ! 

Check out the YouTube: The Behavior Panel's assessment of Grusch. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvdUjRvAcMs

Their conclusion is in line with most here.

 

3 hours ago, robb13 said:

Check out the YouTube: The Behavior Panel's assessment of Grusch. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvdUjRvAcMs

Their conclusion is in line with most here.

 

 

I posted it on the previous page. 🙂

22 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

HD video can be faked. Video and witness testimony is interesting and part of the data pool, but its physical evidence that's required to be definitive. 

Very true! HD can be faked but it's still better than a blurry and pixilated video or photo but still not proof unless it was LIVE on TV so everyone could see as it happened...I "might" believe that....maybe but like you said...physical evidence works for me....until then we can do what we're doing here...speculate! 

2 hours ago, Will273 said:

physical evidence works for me....until then we can do what we're doing here...speculate! 

 

Yep, keep an open mind but not so open that our brains fall out. 

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

I posted it on the previous page

Dont know how I missed those posts..  Must have jumped a page when going back.  😵

That assessment does it for me..  Lets await the sequel.  Probably a crowd source fund raising to start up his 'research' Institute that he has alluded to.

2 hours ago, robb13 said:

Probably a crowd source fund raising to start up his 'research' Institute that he has alluded to.

 

 😁

 

Edited June 19, 20232 yr by martin-w

Whichever way you look at this, there are some facts that are hard to escape:

• The Pentagon has admitted that they have been studying UFO's / UAP in some capacity for years.
  • This is an indirect admission that they have been lying to or misleading elected officials and the public for quite some time.
• David Grusch has submitted evidence to Congress to back up at least some of his claims, and gave about 11 hours of testimony.
  • In this respect, as he is using formal processes, if he is found to be lying, he can go to jail.
• The Inspector General of the Intelligence Community has determined Grusch's claims to be both credible and urgent.
• Grusch was cleared by (someone at) the DoD to publicly make the claims he is making, without revealing classified information, which would be a crime RE: Edward Snowden etc.

On that last point,  there is something that is often overlooked in these discussions that's worth mentioning:

"The US Government" is NOT one coherent entity with a single intent / purpose.

It is clear from the last few years that:

• "The Pentagon" / DoD has lied to Congress.
• "The Pentagon" has also lied to "The Whitehouse"
• Different elements of the Military (Airforce / Navy) are cooperating with the AARO investigations to very different extents. i.e. Navy is apparently cooperating, Air Force is not.
• The above indicates there are very different attitudes within the DoD towards the subject.
• Different groups within "The Government" have very different clearance levels, restricting their access to information. e.g. AARO allegedly has not been granted the clearance to view much of the classified information relevant to the UAP subject.

There are many players, with many different agendas all being pushed at the same time, hence the conflicting information.

So when people say this is a psy-op by "The Government", that statement makes no sense without also stating which element of "The Government" they're talking about, and what their intentions are.

To put it simply: It appears that some elements of "The Government" want this information to be released, and others are pushing to keep it out of sight. 

IF this is true, then someone has a lot to answer for, as they have been spending US Taxpayer dollars without any oversight from the elected Government....which is illegal.

The "alien" subject is a much deeper one to dig into, and is likely more about "us" than "them". 

On 6/18/2023 at 3:57 PM, Fielder said:

Holmes said something about "however improbable, it must be the truth." So perhaps this would support the reports of aliens on Earth.

Occam reportedly said " “the simplest solution is almost always the best.” This would not support the reports of aliens.

So I guess it's an interesting battle of cliches ! 

There's an underlying assumption in both of those statements: It assumes that the basic premises you're operating from are correct.

Unfortunately for us, there are some things we don't know for sure, including:

• Whether our understanding of Physics is correct, or complete  (It's definitely not)
  • This expands to our understanding of the nature time and space
• The exact nature of our reality
• The scarcity and / or abundance of intelligent life in the universe (and it's distribution)

Without knowing the answers to the above questions "the improbable", as well as "the simplest solution" are meaningless.

 

For example, If you start with the assumptions that:

1) We don't fully understand Physics and 

2) Intelligent life in the universe is abundant (and some are much, much older than we are),

.....after seeing an anomalous "craft", performing "physics-defying" maneuvers, the simplest solution could be that it's not from here and someone else built it.

 

However, if you presume that all of our existing assumptions about Physics, lack of obvious signs of life "out there" etc. are correct, then yes, you have a conundrum. The simplest solution becomes "it must be from here and / or misidentified natural phenomena".

 

I'm not exactly holding my breath for the latter case. IMO we've learned too much about the universe in the last 500 years to assume the next 500 years won't be as enlightening...and the rate of learning is only accelerating.

Every time I hear the argument about the distances in space being "too vast to travel here", or speed of light etc....I imagine myself being in the 16th Century and hearing someone argue that it will always take months to cross the oceans because sailing ships can only go so-fast. Look at us now....

6 hours ago, DaviiB said:

It appears that some elements of "The Government" want this information to be released, and others are pushing to keep it out of sight. 

But, who is the individual actually issuing the order to withhold the information and to whom is that person accountable? It sounds as if it's not the President. I hope it's not just some nameless, faceless individual..

Edited June 19, 20232 yr by dmwalker

4 hours ago, DaviiB said:

 

Every time I hear the argument about the distances in space being "too vast to travel here", or speed of light etc....I imagine myself being in the 16th Century and hearing someone argue that it will always take months to cross the oceans because sailing ships can only go so-fast. Look at us now....

My thoughts exactly. Widespread radios transmissions began in the 1920's. 'They' (the aliens presumed to be out there) know we are here. They have the speed to get here. During those hundred years no craft has landed in plain view.

It follows that it is therefore likely "They" are not out there. We are alone.

Or "They" are there but are not the least bit desirous of traveling here conspicuously.

And if they want to stay hidden from us, then why travel here at all? Surely not to secretly spy on our, relative to their, ancient technology. Nonsense that they would come here to spy on poor retarded us. 

They don't exist, or they are staying far away.

For a hundred years (!) people keep saying we shall surely find extraterrestrials. Which is not long enough to discourage the true believers.

 

4 hours ago, dmwalker said:

But, who is the individual actually issuing the order to withhold the information and to whom is that person accountable? It sounds as if it's not the President. I hope it's not just some nameless, faceless individual..

I don't know. Maybe start by asking Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, head of AARO. 

His recent statement (just before the Grusch story broke) was that AARO has no verifiable evidence of an ET presence. 

Grusch claims that AARO has/had access to some of the same information (non-classified I assume) that he has. 

So, someone is not being honest, and if anyone bothers to try to verify Grush's claims, we should quickly find out who it is. 

Both men have something to lose if it's demonstrated that they lied to Congress.

3 hours ago, Fielder said:

My thoughts exactly. Widespread radios transmissions began in the 1920's. 'They' (the aliens presumed to be out there) know we are here. They have the speed to get here. During those hundred years no craft has landed in plain view.

There are alot of assumptions in there: 

Why would radio transmissions be the only way an ET civilization could find us? 

This also implies that they had no clue we were here for thousands of years prior?... And never visited. 

"No craft has landed in plain view" - There are many, many witnesses who would disagree with you on that point. Also, perhaps it's not a great idea to routinely land and park your ship in full view of the territorial apes with deadly weapons?

 

3 hours ago, Fielder said:

It follows that it is therefore likely "They" are not out there. We are alone.

Or "They" are there but are not the least bit desirous of traveling here conspicuously.

And if they want to stay hidden from us, then why travel here at all? Surely not to secretly spy on our, relative to their, ancient technology. Nonsense that they would come here to spy on poor retarded us. 

They don't exist, or they are staying far away.

You wouldn't expect a troupe of apes in the jungle to understand a scientist's reasons for observing them, or studying the jungle around them? Is it possible that we wouldn't comprehend the motives of a species that's extremely advanced (comparatively) and far more evolved than we are? 

It's even possible that our presence on this planet is completely incidental to their reason for visiting (i.e. They're not here for us. We're just the wildlife ). 

We have a very human-centric way of looking at things (we have no choice), but what if we need to realize, like a toddler starting to grow up, that it's not all about us, and we're part of a much bigger picture.

All that to say, you can't really guess at motives or speculate too much without tripping over an underlying assumption that hasn't been tested or verified. 

3 hours ago, Fielder said:

.For a hundred years (!) people keep saying we shall surely find extraterrestrials. Which is not long enough to discourage the true believers.

What's being alleged by this whistleblower is that we found them 90 years ago, but you, me and the rest of the public weren't told. 

Also, understand that a hundred years is barely a blip in the (known) history of the human race. In that time, we'd just recently figured out (after thousands of years) that slavery is bad.... and it's just now occurring to us that wars are bad for everybody....

Perhaps the "landing on the Whitehouse lawn" (open contract) theatrics are on pause until we grow up a bit more? If it was me out there, I'd be inclined to wait. 

Hopefully that was coherent. 

Cheers

Edited June 20, 20232 yr by DaviiB