3 hours ago, dmwalker said:

But you have to be more specific than  “the military industrial complex”.The industrial half has influence but it's the military half which makes the decisions, so how high do you have to go in the military to find who can change the classification process with respect to UFOs? Would it be the President or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or someone else with access to the covert programme which David Grusch is referring to?

I certainly do not believe that it is any President. They come and go on a regular basis, and are far too "visible". I also do not believe that it would be one person. Maybe the term "Majestic 12" is closer to the truth than most people think?

6 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I certainly do not believe that it is any President. They come and go on a regular basis, and are far too "visible". I also do not believe that it would be one person. Maybe the term "Majestic 12" is closer to the truth than most people think?

 

Yep, Presidents are transitory, you can bet they aren't read into a load of stuff. 

1 hour ago, DaviiB said:

Nobody said they crash frequently. And nobody has indicated definitively 'why' they crashed.

Nobody is saying they were all piloted.

 

Grusch has implied many have crashed. He said some were abandoned, and some crashed. Grusch also claimed there was a UFO crash in Italy that the pope was implicit in covering up. He said there were intact and partially intact vehicles. He also said that retrievals of this kind were a global phenomenon. He also said that crash recovery operations were ongoing at various levels of activity. "Frequently" would depend on the time frame over which these alleged crashes happened, but the implication is certainly that there were a lot of crashes. And if Grusch is right that the retrievals are ongoing, then there are even more to be retrieved. So the implication is most certainly that there are a lot of them. 

https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

When we look at Ufology in general, there are a multitude of claimed crashed alien craft. Lazar claimed there were 9 just in one location. 

I didn't say anything about "all of them" being piloted. The point is that you wouldn't risk life and put pilots in any of them when it wasn't necessary and so many failures of that vehicle were manifest. We have remotely piloted vehicles ourselves, so we can expect a hyper advanced alien technology to be orders of magnitude more advanced in that respect, and unpiloted drones, probably controlled by artificial intelligence, the logical choice, not vulnerable little alien bodes. 

Why they crashed isn't relevant. A  hyper advanced alien craft, capable of traveling at relativistic velocities, or from another dimension (which Grusch theorized) capable of defying known physics, impervious to inertia, capable of instant acceleration, capable of sudden turns at multi-mach speeds, capable of withstanding thousands of G as if it were nothing... would not complete 99.9% of its journey and then crash when it got to the easy bit, traveling through our atmosphere. Aliens most certainly would not "abandon" their hyper advanced technology for humans to drive off with either. And we most certainly wouldn't be able to shoot down a UAP that can defy physics with its maneuverability. 

I keep an open mind regarding this stuff, and will be the first to tell you that something mysterious is transpiring, but I can't bring myself to accept that so many of these claimed vehicles have bitten the dust and that its an "ongoing" phenomenon. Aliens would not be incompetent creators of technology, and if they risked their little alien bodies by flying in one, they wouldn't be incompetent pilots. 

This stuff from Grusch just seems like all the UFO mythology we have heard before in one bundle to me.

 

2 hours ago, DaviiB said:

I get the impression that if any of this is true

 

Exactly. IF this is true and we are being visited. So far all we have is "what people say" and no proper evidence that non human intelligences are visiting us. We need real data, we need real evidence, not claims.

2 minutes ago, martin-w said:

So the implication is most certainly that there are a lot of them.

So there should be a new crash any day now.

1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

Maybe the term "Majestic 12" is closer to the truth than most people think?

Even if it is a team, the military members must report to a superior officer outside the programme, who has a high enough security clearance and who can decide what can be declassified. I assume we are talking about military classifications.

7 hours ago, robb13 said:

But I suspect these aliens have decided they are not going to show themselves until humanity is prepared to respect them and not photograph them with all the filters etc switched on.  Who wants to see a golden, slender, silky skinned, curvy alien..  !!

Me, me !

Part of the historical basis for aliens of great power who came to Earth (1936)

World's Finest Comics vol. 1 #162, 1936, art by Curt Swan

54 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Even if it is a team, the military members must report to a superior officer outside the programme, who has a high enough security clearance and who can decide what can be declassified. I assume we are talking about military classifications.

My understanding is yes, that is how things are supposed to work. 

Again, the allegation is that this program is, and has been operating without proper oversight, so the people who should have been read-in were not. 

Allegedly, program names, people involved, and potentially, names of decision makers have been provided to Congress in the 11 hours of testimony Grusch provided.... so if anyone bothers to look, we'll find out. 

It wouldn't be the first time a classified program has run amok in the US. 

I've seen both the Stealth Bomber which looks like a flying wing and the Stealth Fighter which reminds me of Darth Vaders Helmet. I saw them at an airshow years ago and the Bomber almost disappears after it flies over you...both flew over the Air Base...it looks like a little straight line and has no profile so it's difficult to see if you don't know exactly where to look. Neither one makes any noise as it approaches and flies over...the sound comes after it has passed over you. As for the looks....this is where the UFO look comes in....they both look alien seeing them in person and could easily be mistaken for a UFO and they were built in the 1960s but we didn't know about them until much later so there's no telling what they're currently working on and this is why I think all the UFO sightings are just experimental aircraft.

20 hours ago, dmwalker said:

so how high do you have to go in the military to find who can change the classification process

.... I thought the President could do that just by thinking about it  !

What I am wondering is why has there been no follow up (as far as I can see) of the UAP which the US airforce shot down in Alaska (or Canada.. cant remember which it was) just after they shot down the Chinese spy balloon... They took out two objects.. one they said was a balloon and the other a "cigar shaped object" which they said could not be found.  Dont recall any media follow up and nothing on YouTube about it at all.. The silence is a red flag..No govt goes up and shoots something down because they dont like the look of it and then just leaves it where it fell.

28 minutes ago, robb13 said:

.... I thought the President could do that just by thinking about it  !

What I am wondering is why has there been no follow up (as far as I can see) of the UAP which the US airforce shot down in Alaska (or Canada.. cant remember which it was) just after they shot down the Chinese spy balloon... They took out two objects.. one they said was a balloon and the other a "cigar shaped object" which they said could not be found.  Dont recall any media follow up and nothing on YouTube about it at all.. The silence is a red flag..No govt goes up and shoots something down because they dont like the look of it and then just leaves it where it fell.

This.

Especially if you shot it down over your own territory. 

There is the GIANT caveat here that UFOs/UAP in the (distant and recent) past have reportedly been able to toy with fighter jets in a manner that makes it clear the jets would be hilariously outclassed in a straight up fight. I am not convinced those incidents were anything but a show put on for the media / public. You don't just find one balloon, then suddenly 3 more within a week, then zero after that. I'm calling shenanigans. 

15 hours ago, martin-w said:

Grusch also claimed there was a UFO crash in Italy that the pope was implicit in covering up.

Technically, he said the Vatican alerted the US Government of its existence.

15 hours ago, martin-w said:

Grusch has implied many have crashed. He said some were abandoned, and some crashed. Grusch also claimed there was a UFO crash in Italy that the pope was implicit in covering up. He said there were intact and partially intact vehicles. He also said that retrievals of this kind were a global phenomenon. He also said that crash recovery operations were ongoing at various levels of activity. "Frequently" would depend on the time frame over which these alleged crashes happened, but the implication is certainly that there were a lot of crashes.

....Lazar claimed there were 9 just in one location. 

I believe he said "quite a number" when asked how many were in the possession of "the program". Recent reporting from Michael Shellenberger has claimed that his sources have indicated that the number is "at least twelve".  Lazar also claimed that at least one of the vehicles being worked on was recovered in an archeological dig.....so we may be talking about a fairly long timeframe.

 

16 hours ago, martin-w said:

I didn't say anything about "all of them" being piloted. The point is that you wouldn't risk life and put pilots in any of them when it wasn't necessary and so many failures of that vehicle were manifest. We have remotely piloted vehicles ourselves, so we can expect a hyper advanced alien technology to be orders of magnitude more advanced in that respect, and unpiloted drones, probably controlled by artificial intelligence, the logical choice, not vulnerable little alien bodes. 

Why they crashed isn't relevant. A  hyper advanced alien craft, capable of traveling at relativistic velocities, or from another dimension (which Grusch theorized) capable of defying known physics, impervious to inertia, capable of instant acceleration, capable of sudden turns at multi-mach speeds, capable of withstanding thousands of G as if it were nothing... would not complete 99.9% of its journey and then crash when it got to the easy bit, traveling through our atmosphere. Aliens most certainly would not "abandon" their hyper advanced technology for humans to drive off with either. And we most certainly wouldn't be able to shoot down a UAP that can defy physics with its maneuverability. 

Why there would be "pilots" on board is not something we can speculate on. But if you must, one could easily hypothesize that if you were orders of magnitude more advanced than us, you'd send a "biological" robot that could do way more than a drone....collect, observe and interact etc. Look at the potential uses for the robots coming out of Boston Dynamics. Think about what they might look like in a thousand years.

As for why they crash. I think it might be a bit of a fallacy to assume "they" travelled any meaningful distance in relatively small (as popularly described) craft. If you were visiting a newly discovered island, you wouldn't dock / beach / land your oceangoing vessel on the shore. You'd keep it moored out of sight send a small (and likely much less durable) landing craft. <<This somewhat excludes the interdimensional hypothesis.

We also can't speculate as to why they would "abandon" their craft here. We literally don't know what is, or was going on, what is coming here, what their intentions are, or how many different players / agendas are at work.

As for whether or not we could shoot them down..... I agree, not with guns or missiles. We do have some pretty cool Laser and EM-based weapons being put on warships now...who knows how long those have been operational.

16 hours ago, martin-w said:

This stuff from Grusch just seems like all the UFO mythology we have heard before in one bundle to me.

Everyone has been waiting for "The Government" to disclose "the truth" about UFO's. Now a high ranking government intelligence official has come out and confirmed that (at least some of) what's been whispered about and "leaked" for years is true, and the response is "I think it's a psy-op".

Let's wait for the investigation to proceed. This whistleblower didn't just come out of nowhere. He's been trying to work through all of the "official" channels for years, and (allegedly) has decided to go public with what he can after meeting both resistance and reprisals for what he's done. Also, leaking classified documents would land him in jail quickly....even if their classification was unjustified. The release of the hard evidence on this is something that would happen much further down the line, but it seems the ball is now rolling.

There is apparently much more to come on this, so let's just keep our ears open, and watch what happens from here.

Again, If true, this is kind of a big deal so I feel it's worth paying attention.

2 hours ago, Will273 said:

this is why I think all the UFO sightings are just experimental aircraft.

 

Possible. Although, if the witnesses are correct, physics defying maneuvers were witnessed. Which would mean that an incredible breakthrough had given a nation Star Trek inertial dampeners. 😁 Which would seem limited in its plausibility. 

It doesn't matter how you look at this, alien tech or secret aircraft, it seems that the explanation is extraordinary.

The simplest explanation is that the seemingly physics defying maneuvers were not as physics defying as they seemed. 

 

 

1 hour ago, DaviiB said:

You don't just find one balloon, then suddenly 3 more within a week, then zero after that. I'm calling shenanigans. 

 

After the Chinese balloon was shot down, radar was retuned, hence why other "baloons" were identified. Before that the filters were set  to a lower sensitivity to avoid clutter from small commercial balloons.