Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 - Announce Trailer

[Dominique_K 10,152]

1 hour ago, pmb said:

 . Which I would prefer over the first option.

 

The sim including the MS Store sales wouldn't  meet the profit ratio anymore.  Like any game, it is no surprise.  Time for a new release with some feathers, sequins and rhinestones  added to it. Better than throttle the bandwidth or disband  the team, if you ask me .

I can't wait for the first  post one hour after the release telling to the word : "what ?! but this is just a glorified patch ! " 😄.

[Zangoose 1,633]

 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

2 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

Flight simulator has a large development team (200+).

How do you know? I’ve never seen that info made public. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

2 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

You don't have to.  Nobody's forcing you to do anything.

If you use [other simulators] you could also stay on older, "broken" versions if you want.

"pay again for the sim we were originally promised" ... if you don't think you got your money's worth by this point, don't buy it!!!

This isn't that difficult.

You’re missing the point. 

[regis9 4,038]

The FAQ would seem to indicate that the sky is in fact not falling.  Carry on.

[lwt1971 7,456]

3 hours ago, Franz007 said:

Of course it is. It was made for casual XBox-gamers rather than for aviation-fans and pilots, who are a minority. It won’t make it suddenly better if there are 100 or 100 mio users.

Hmmm ok... so all of those AAU updates to  increase fidelity to unheard of levels in default avionics and aircraft, atmospheric airflow modelling based on CFD, outsourcing to renowned devs to add high fidelity aircraft like the iniBuilds A310 to the default fleet for free, etc etc etc must have been to please the "XBox-gamers".

 

2 hours ago, Franz007 said:

Call it trolling if you want. This is my honest tought after having used almost every flightsim since 35 years. I just don’t understand why they could not at least keep the good things from other sims. The camera steering is very unconvenient, a tower or runway-view is missing, the zoom is limited. There is even no proper replay! The weather engine has issues even after 3 years, metars are being depicted completely wrong again and again, stuff that was working flawlessely since 10 years or more in other sims (ActiveSky etc.), there are no 3D weather-radars like we had in other sims since years. The ground-steering is atrociously bad, the flight feeling isn’t there despite all promises, inertia is missing or wrongly simulated. Then this strange popout-screens that were perfect since years in the PMDG-aircrafts and doesn’t really work now; either there are too big and don’t keep their position saved or at best we have to press a key during clicking then, why so complicated? The whole usability is bad, we cannot even reload a plane or change a livery without going back to the main menu (a step back as well). And one of the most disappointing things: there are no turbulences at all when flying through clouds; flying into a hurricane has zero impact on the aircraft. Seasons? Missing of course etc.

That’s why MSFS2020 has been a big step backwards for me, based on my experience. The only pro is the revolutionary scenery. Unfortunately not enough for me to compensate for all cons.

Really sounds like you're best off sticking to the legacy sim(s) then if these pain points are deal breakers 🤷‍♂️ I for one will gladly keep taking innovations and forward progress in MSFS, and having simmed over 35 years myself on all the sims that came before, nothing even comes remotely close to providing the overall experience like MSFS, and the gaps just keep widening (despite different camera handling, weather radars not being as complete as they could be, ground handling issues, pop out screen issues, livery change mechanisms, etc). I certainly didn't expect to buy MSFS in 2020 for a fixed price and then keep getting free stuff for 10+ years.. what they promised was to stay in for 10+ years, and oh boy are they ever doing that with the furious updates and expansion of their team.. if it means I need to keep ponying up $60/$90/$120 every few years to get appreciable improvements and up-to-date tech that is not lagging by years (like in some other sims), then ya, sign me up! And they seem to be ensuring there is minimal pain for 3rd party devs to either allow their current add-ons to work in the 2024 core platform seamlessly or with minimal updates.. sign me up again!

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by lwt1971

[AnkH 2,282]

18 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I suspect we'll be getting deep dive previews on various aspects of the core sim that's being improved in 2024 between now and release, just like the pre 2020 days. Don't think we can just go by a 2 minute trailer tailored for the XBox games showcase and assume the majority of the new content/innovation are only around missions.

Considering you list I fear that you will be pretty d* underwhelmed by MSFS 2024. I doubt that this novel iteration will miracously fix all core sim issues of MSFS 2020 at once, this will never going to happen. I sadly rather believe that there will be several core sim issues now fixed in MSFS 2020 simply reappear in MSFS 2024 and need fixing again. This is the way more probable thing to happen, because it happens in almost each and every sequel throughout the whole gaming industry... 

[Elvensmith 165]

29 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

You are talking about XBox funds, he was talking about Steam funds, which works fine.

Yes Steam funds are okay but it is far easier to buy MS/Xbox wallet/gift cards which are everywhere as opposed to Steam which come and go. At present the only place in Swindon selling the latter is Argos but all the mainstream supermarkets have Xbox cards aplenty.

[lwt1971 7,456]

5 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Considering you list I fear that you will be pretty d* underwhelmed by MSFS 2024. I doubt that this novel iteration will miracously fix all core sim issues of MSFS 2020 at once, this will never going to happen. I sadly rather believe that there will be several core sim issues now fixed in MSFS 2020 simply reappear in MSFS 2024 and need fixing again. This is the way more probable thing to happen, because it happens in almost each and every sequel throughout the whole gaming industry... 

I fear that you will be pretty d* wrong about what I will feel 🙂 ... sure you keep believing that, I'll wait to see what actually happens rather than assume the worst, especially given how the sim has progressed from initial release in 2020 to now (that list of mine surely hasn't kept me away from using the sim extensively as it stands now, especially with all my add-on birds from PMDG/Fenix/Milviz/etc, and it surely won't when I decide to move to 2024 and even in the very unlikely scenario that nothing on that list is addressed).
 

Edited June 12, 2023 by lwt1971

[OzWhitey 3,353]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

If you are not happy about buying the 737 four times,  the problem is with you, not PMDG. Nobody forced you to anything. 

It yes it is bad manner to barge in a FS24 thread just to say something nasty about PMDG. In modern speak this is called trolling. 

Where did I say I was unhappy about buying the 737 four times?? 

Also, it’s five times - I forgot that I had to buy NGX and NGXu for P3D. Also, bought it twice for MSFS as it suddenly became a bunch of different products, so six times I guess.

But the guy you are accusing of trolling mentioned PMDG in passing as an example of devs who like to monetise things. The NGX/NGXu thing is a pretty strong example of that. 

We all hope that devs will update their products to MSFS 2024 for free, but with some devs I’m not going to count on that until I hear it directly from them.

 

[Farlis 2,317]

While we still wait for a precise explanation, what this this all means here is my educated guess.

All speculation, and a lot of "I hope this is true" at this point though:

 

They brand this as a new Simulator, but it isn't really. It is the same Simulator with a slightly different UI, probably. And it is basically "just" another SimUpdate. However with many of the features they have been working on for years and promised that would come (like for example Seasons) and a few no one saw coming (like the improved AutogenTrees).

Once this is released, continued development in the form of free Sim- and Worldupdates will only be happen on this "new" platform. So if you want more of these you have to buy the new version.

 

The current version will receive continued support in so far that long standing bugs will be adressed should they be fixed after the release of 2024. But MSFS itself, the then "old" version, will not get any further content updates after the release of MSFS2024.

What might be still possible, unless the compilers change drastically or some new features are introduced that requires the updated architecture of the new version, is that 3rd-Party add-ons that are released for 2024 are fully backwards compatible with MSFS as well. So for example if a now already existing Add-On Airport like Inibuild's Heathrow get's an update in 2024, this will also carry over to MSFS.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Farlis

[John Fields 280]

24 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

The most plausible scenario for me is that all the various areas of the core sim where MS/Asobo have either stated explicitly or hinted that they are doing a major update or complete rewrite/rework on, will now only be coming in the 2024 release:

• seasons (already pretty clear it's 2024 only based on this trailer and recent change of the wishlist item from "Started" to "Planned")
• overall weather (remember in the early Q&As they spoke about much more comprehensive weather which they really want to do)
• ground handling (I'm guessing the interim fixes in SU10 to address cross-wind and wheel stickiness issues are it for 2020, and the broader rework Seb spoke about in earlier Q&As such as modelling wheels as fully 3D objects with various characteristics etc will like only come in 2024 imo)
• ATC: I remember in the recent Q&A when they were asked about ATC re-work and them pausing/smiling and saying that it's being reworked but will take time
• AI
• core flight dynamics & FDE: I'm going to take an educated guess that IL-2's lead engineer Sturmovik must've been hired to get to work straight on 2024 in these areas along with Seb and others
• full native DX12 support from the get go
• etc

I suspect we'll be getting deep dive previews on various aspects of the core sim that's being improved in 2024 between now and release, just like the pre 2020 days. Don't think we can just go by a 2 minute trailer tailored for the XBox games showcase and assume the majority of the new content/innovation are only around missions.
 

You have the point. Absolutely!

I've seen the FS24 trailer again, and I'm thinking that I'm not very much interested in aerial firefighting, rescue operations, helicopter cargo transport, air ambulance, etc.

What I really would like is a good ATC, better flight dynamics, a fine photogrammetry, realistic vegetation and seasons, better ground mapping (no popping out textures, for instance).

Regards.

 

[icewater5 181]

Having been time sidtracked the last few months i still havent got msfs2020. So at the mo can only enjoy it through the internet and this forum. I was more re-assure about backward compatability having watched the updated trailer than the first one. That said i dont have the direct concern about this,

But at least they specifically referred to this, after they were aware about some concerns about this. Ive been flat out working recently.lol. so maybe im simply missing something here, In which case i will be corrected.

My other point is that bringing flight simulator to a wider audience, imo, is a good thing in the long run. I personally am not particulary into missions or specialised flying scenarios. But having watched the last trailer, i really think that this is starting to move into the areas of world popular computer games, and feel like one. I dont see this as a double-edged sword with core issues on one side, more like two sides of the same coin. Just my 2 cents anyway..

 

[OzWhitey 3,353]

2 hours ago, simbol said:

But this is our reality on every SU update and AAU update anyway! every single update released forces us to update our advance airplanes and push changes. Nothing changes here for me, I will just update wherever and continue business as usual.

As a 3rd party developer I am delighted by the news, it means new SDK with more power to be able to create more amazing content.. and you guys as users, you have been asking for MORE, MORE we want this, we want that.. well.. here it is.. embrace it..

Best,
Raul

Hey, I’m happy about the news too.

But that’s my point - you have to keep updating the product with each service update, so devs need to do it on an ongoing basis for MSFS 2024 of course. There’s nothing stopping devs releasing a 2024-specific version of their aircraft and only providing updated versions for that. 

PMDG did it with the NGX and P3D v5 - it would have taken them 5 minutes to update the installers, but they decided for commercial reasons to push everyone into using the NGXu.

I know you won’t do this, Simbol. 🙂 But there are some devs notorious for charging for version updates (Justsim springs to mind), and others that never bother to update (plenty of Orbx examples of this in P3D).

As a consumer, I try to only support devs who do the right thing.

EDIT: Fwiw, my best guess is that MS will strongly encourage developers to provide free updates to MSFS 2024, and that the great majority will do so. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by OzWhitey

[lwt1971 7,456]

 

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

How do you know? I’ve never seen that info made public. 

Well, just going by the most recent dev Q&A (transcript here: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/may-2023-developer-stream/591452), they spoke about how world updates are done and who does what at this timestamp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQzeTwdJzTQ&t=1427s, and end up with this statement:

Jorg - So if you think about world updates, net, we by and large have about between 100 and 120 people working on this and then get data from the big Microsoft data providers. That’s how this works. Hopefully that was useful, not too long!

I believe they have hinted at or explicitly stated the size of their overall team in previous Q&As, but just going by above it's kind of easy to extrapolate the size of the extended development team.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by lwt1971