MSFS 2024 …. Betrayal ?

[Abriael 952]

On 6/14/2023 at 8:11 AM, robert young said:

can only assume MS are not satisfied with sales projections of MSFS 2020 and want to attract customers other than those interested in details like decent ATC, AI and the cleaning up of existing weaknesses in the current sim, otherwise why would they divert their focus and manpower onto what appears to be a role playing title?

I missed this one, but I think it's worth addressing the complete lack of touch with how this industry works.

Games that don't satisfy sales-wise don't get sequels. It's simple as that.

The idea that they're releasing a sequel, with all the investment it requires in development, new tech, and marketing (yes, releasing a new game requries an entirely new marketing cycle which has sizable cost), to somehow "make more money because the first didn't sell enough" is entirely ludicrous and flies in the face of the most basic principles of how the game development industry operates. 

The fact that MSFS 2020 is getting a sequel means not only that it matched projections, but likely that it exceeded them by a wide margin, enough to convince Microsoft that further investment in a second launch was warranted.

Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of the only two games that ever got three mentions from Microsoft CEO's Satya Nadella in financial conference calls for investors (since when I follow them for work, which is the past 20+ years), the other one being Minecraft. There is zero doubt that the marketplace alone makes this product one of Microsoft's most profitable along their gaming lineup. I always giggle when people allege that this product is somewhat not doing well, because it shows how completely out of touch part of this community may be with the reality of the wider gaming industry. Over a decade of complete insularity has certainly done a number on ya'll.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Abriael

[UrgentSiesta 943]

3 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Yes because they offer minimal improvements for an extra £800+. Complete waste of money. And because the batteries are locked in, no way to keep the old one (which the EU law is about to change, good!). Same with a lot of things in society these days, including computer games. I have exceptions; Cities skyline had a great 7+ year run as did Civilisation 6. Now thats what I call value for money. If my smart phone lasted 8 years like my car, I would be super happy. But it doesn't, the battery health deteriorates and forces me to get a new one. 

I generally keep my phones for several years, so the performance benefits and camera improvements are generally well worth the costs.  and I haven’t yet had to replace a phone because of battery issues or any other defects.

my wife is a total cheap word not allowed and kept her last phone for 6 years. Daily heavy use. No issues.
 

phones have built in batteries because it makes them smaller. That’s consumer pressure, not greedy corps. 
 

Consumer tech evolves quickly, particularly software. 
 

if you don’t want to accept the rate of change, there are other simulators that are more in line with your rate of adoption. 
 

the other multi-millions of us don’t mind setting aside a dollar a month to keep the improvements coming fast and substantial. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 hours ago, ShawnG said:

get out of here with this nonsense.

I respect your opinion, please respect mine and don’t tell me to get out of here. I could just as easily rubbish your opinion, but I won’t. 
 

PS, ATC was better in FSX. It isn’t all roses. Hence my original comment. Jorg sometimes looks confused when asked about certain elements, it’s an observation. If you don’t like an opinion, debate it back, but don’t rubbish it. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ianrivaldosmith

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

If they add drones with windshield wipers, then it will have all been worth it.

 

[Ponk 51]

On 6/14/2023 at 4:36 PM, robert young said:

I take it that is a sort of apology?

Rob Young, from RealAir??  I just checked my emails and found some 2009 email from you with direct email support I needed for the Duke Turbine!   Your aircraft were amazing, they were the real deal as far as flight dynamics and that "feel" that is hard to program.  What other aircraft did you do, I'm sure there was a sporty single too. The only other aircraft like that are the SF260 in XP11 and some of the old A2A stuff! Been flight simming since 1985, Digital integration Tomahawk was my first game on Spectrum (anybody younger than about 45 will need to look that up in Youtube) and there aren't many aircraft that fit in my top aircraft category!

Sorry for the thread hijack!  Hope you are doing well Rob.

 

I've been on DCS and XP11 for the last year, MSFS just didn't have anything like the feeling of flight for me, especially landing physics, and the terrible rudder control on the ground which fails to give you any feeling of mass or inertia for the aircraft you are flying.  The game after all, is also meant for Xbox control with outside view, so...what do you expect.  Hopefully A2A resolve that with the Commanche release!

Edited June 25, 2023 by Ponk

[Abriael 952]

5 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I respect your opinion, please respect mine and don’t tell me to get out of here. I could just as easily rubbish your opinion, but I won’t. 

To be fair, comparing jorg to a politician is not a very respectful, and by extension respectable, "opinion."

You talked of the confidence you have in his word, but he did *not* give his word. That being said, keeping firmly in mind that only someone who knows nothing of game development isn't aware that plans in game development change by the very nature of the activity, and that a developer can only provide a snapshot of what's planned at the time in which they speak, Jorg has certainly always put the utmost effort in making what he says happen, so describing him as someone untrustworthy means simply living in lala land. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

2 minutes ago, Abriael said:

To be fair, comparing jorg to a politician is not a very respectful, and by extension respectable, "opinion."

Why, because you don’t like it? That’s hardly being fair. 

 

3 minutes ago, Abriael said:

Jorg has certainly always put the utmost effort in making what he says happen, so describing him as someone untrustworthy means simply living in lala land. 

No, he hasn’t. A lot of rose tinted glasses in here. There has been Q&A sessions where he had completely ignored questions for example. I’m sure others can elaborate. I can’t be bothered now. 

[icewater5 181]

45 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I respect your opinion, please respect mine and don’t tell me to get out of here. I could just as easily rubbish your opinion, but I won’t. 
 

PS, ATC was better in FSX. It isn’t all roses. Hence my original comment. Jorg sometimes looks confused when asked about certain elements, it’s an observation. If you don’t like an opinion, debate it back, but don’t rubbish it. 

I dont get the hassle, even iff some disagree. Provocative thread titles never end well. lol 🙂

Edited June 25, 2023 by icewater5
focus

[Abriael 952]

27 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Why, because you don’t like it? That’s hardly being fair. 

No. Because if you can't be respectful, you shouldn't expect your opinion to be respected.

Calling a developer a liar is very far from respectful.

27 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

No, he hasn’t. A lot of rose tinted glasses in here. There has been Q&A sessions where he had completely ignored questions for example. I’m sure others can elaborate. I can’t be bothered now. 

As I explained, developers can only provide a snapshot of what is planned at any given choice and plans in development change, especially in long-running live services. I understand that some here aren't very familiar with the industry, since their experience is limited to a handful of products, most of which show very little evolution over time (which isn't a good thing), but the reality of the industry as a whole is very different.

Incidentally, responding to ALL questions is not his duty, and I'm actually rather amazed that I need to explain it. The fact that you can ask questions does not make you entitled to an answer. 

As a matter of fact, in nearly 25 years of working in the gaming industry, I've found very few developers as honest and reliable as Jorg, to the extent of what someone can predict of a fluid process like game development. .

No. I don't have any rose-tinted glasses. I'm simply not desperate to disingenuously find fault in the developer who spearheaded the creation and maintenance of the best flight simulator in the history of the genre, and not by a small margin. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Abriael

[ca_metal 2,033]

5 minutes ago, Abriael said:

No. Because if you can't be respectful, you shouldn't expect your opinion to be respected.

Calling a developer a liar is very far from respectful.

As I explained, developers can only provide a snapshot of what is planned at any given choice and plans in development change, especially in long-running live services. I understand that some here aren't very familiar with the industry, since their experience is limited to a handful of products, most of which show very little evolution over time (which isn't a good thing), but the reality of the industry as a whole is very different.

Incidentally, responding to ALL questions is not his duty, and I'm actually rather amazed that I need to explain it. The fact that you can ask questions does not make you entitled to an answer. 

As a matter of fact, in nearly 25 years of working in the gaming industry, I've found very few developers as honest and reliable as Jorg, to the extent of what someone can predict of a fluid process like game development. .

No. I don't have any rose-tinted glasses. I'm simply not desperate to disingenuously find fault in the developer who spearheaded the creation and maintenance of the best flight simulator in the history of the genre, and not by a small margin. 

Long time no see, man. You need to invite Jörg for a deep interview about 2024. 
 

cheers,

[Abriael 952]

4 minutes ago, ca_metal said:

Long time no see, man. You need to invite Jörg for a deep interview about 2024. 
cheers,

It's gonna take a while before they're ready to talk about it extensively. I've already threw my name in the hat the moment it was announced, but gotta wait some. 

Perhaps at gamescom in August, albeit I can't guarantee it won't still be too early. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by Abriael

[sd_flyer 6,107]

This thread must die! LOL

[Abriael 952]

1 minute ago, sd_flyer said:

This thread must die! LOL

It's already dead. It was so on arrival. We're just dancing on the corpse. 😂

[blueshark747 1,850]

There are maggots popping out of the garbage now...🤢

[ShawnG 1,823]

33 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I respect your opinion, please respect mine and don’t tell me to get out of here. I could just as easily rubbish your opinion, but I won’t. 
 

PS, ATC was better in FSX. It isn’t all roses. Hence my original comment. Jorg sometimes looks confused when asked about certain elements, it’s an observation. If you don’t like an opinion, debate it back, but don’t rubbish it. 

To be fair, you didn't have an opinion so much as an attempt at rubbishing (that's not a word I use, but it's politer than the ones I do, and it passes the word filter, yay) the character of the head of the developers of the sim.  It's easy to do, and it usually passes without comment here and everywhere else, because Jorg is "the man" and who sticks up for "the man"?   well, on this occasion, me.  But all we are doing is exchanging words on a forum.  Nothing that I wrote,  including the final line indicates any personal animus from me to you.  I understand being frustrated by things, but I felt, and still feel, that your comment lacked perspective and fairness.  

for the specific point about ATC, to pretend that justifies the whole exchange; I also don't agree,  which is not to say I think the ATC is perfect or even good.  It might be fair to criticize Asobo for not improving on the ATC for FSX.  FSX couldn't assign or use any published arrival and departure procedures for one thing.  I'd be in agreement to say the ATC in msfs isn't good enough, but neither was the one in fsx.  they are both horrible differently, with possibly some complications added by the attempt at live traffic, rather than bgl based.  But nuance is more difficult than just throwing poo at it, isn't it?  beyond that, I'll go further:  the replay system is way worse, the sim can't display all cloud types, it's been significantly harder to develop aircraft for this sim, and the UI has had to make too many concessions to accommodate console players that has impacted the PC users.  Like, I said, it isn't perfect.  but I stand by every word of my earlier post.