3 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

I have a perfectly smooth sim with these settings: 

• NVCP: GSync on for full screen applications only; 3D settings: Default for everything (the VSync setting used is the one selected in the games)
• MSFS: VSync on, 100% monitor refresh rate, nVidia Reflex on

With these settings I can cap the framerate down to 40 fps with Rivatuner and the sim is still impressively smooth, even during panning or steep turns.

I keep the framerate capped at 48 to cover also helicopter and fighter jet rides and really, it's so smooth that I don't need any more fps and I prefer to have a quieter PC (the RTX 3090 gets noisy when it has to dissipate 350W).

However I have a true GSync monitor (with the GSync chip), not a compatible one... so results may vary depending on your monitor.

I'm a bit confused.. Doesn't this mean that you got two frame limiters at the same time? RTSS and the sim? Isn't that an avoidable thing to do? Interesting. 

32 minutes ago, Virtpilot said:

I'm a bit confused.. Doesn't this mean that you got two frame limiters at the same time? RTSS and the sim? Isn't that an avoidable thing to do? Interesting. 

His settings could be in an article called "What you shouldn't do if you have a G-Sync monitor and want to use it with MSFS."

34 minutes ago, Alvega said:

His settings could be in an article called "What you shouldn't do if you have a G-Sync monitor and want to use it with MSFS."

LOL

My every day experience refutes that, but feel free to use any other settings.

I don't have a Gsync monitor but I do have 144hz curved monitor. What I did in my case is set refresh rate to 120hz then within the sim I've set v-sync to 1/3rd, this yields 40fps. I must say, this has been perfect for me, both my cpu/gpu are able to maintain 40fps everywhere with most settings in ultra, super smooth experience and using TrackIr too.

2 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

I am using it. With framerate capped at 48 fps, monitor refresh is 48 Hz and it's super smooth.

I may leave everything uncapped and run the sim at 70-80 fps / 70-80 Hz but then the fans would get loud with no benefit for FS. 

When I play first person shooters I leave it uncapped to maximize responsiveness but for a flight simulator it's not needed...

 

You’re not using it in msfs though? , you have Vsync enabled in msfs, therefore Gsync is NOT active. 

29 minutes ago, CarlosF said:

I don't have a Gsync monitor but I do have 144hz curved monitor. What I did in my case is set refresh rate to 120hz then within the sim I've set v-sync to 1/3rd, this yields 40fps. I must say, this has been perfect for me, both my cpu/gpu are able to maintain 40fps everywhere with most settings in ultra, super smooth experience and using TrackIr too.

Did the same, but set my refresh at 100 and 1/3 to accommodate my meager system. The only difference is that I DO have a hardware Gsync monitor with Gsync enabled. So this method works with or without Gsync and is simple and easy to change fps up or down by just changing refresh rate, and or vsync rate. I wish they'd add a 1/4 vsync rate in MSFS.

I hereby challenge anyone to produce a frame time variance as low as this.  I've tried all permutations of locks, syncs, unlocked etc using all tools for this and there is only one method that delivers this.  The lock is set at 35 for this capture which is the best I could sustain with this all ultra, PMDG 738 out of a complex airport from start of taxi to cruise.  This correlates w/ ultra-smooth animation and is a useful way to validate your subjective perception:

And stuttering or the lack thereof:

Done w/ CapFrameX, simply install this freeware, run it, hit F11 to start capture, F11 to stop.

4 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You’re not using it in msfs though? , you have Vsync enabled in msfs, therefore Gsync is NOT active. 

I don't know if that's true:  Gsync will simply "see" the output of the GPU as a fixed frame rate and therefore its variable refresh simply isn't happening, but Gsync is still active.

44 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You’re not using it in msfs though? , you have Vsync enabled in msfs, therefore Gsync is NOT active. 

It is. The refresh rate counter built in in my monitor perfectly keeps pace with the framerate.

When you have GSync active, the VSync setting kicks in when your framerate falls out of the GSync range of the monitor.

Having a 120 Hz refresh monitor, I have GSync between 1 and 120 Hz and VSync caps the framerate at 120 (116 with nVidia Reflex). If I disable VSync, should the framerate exceed 120 fps, I would have tearing. 

With GSync + VSync you have GSync in the VRR range of your monitor AND prevent tearing in case the framerate exceeds the refresh rate of your monitor. 

 

55 minutes ago, Noel said:

I don't know if that's true:  Gsync will simply "see" the output of the GPU as a fixed frame rate and therefore its variable refresh simply isn't happening, but Gsync is still active.

GSync tells the monitor to adapt dynamically its refresh rate to the number of fps that the GPU is delivering. But when the GPU delivers more fps than the maximum refresh rate of the monitor, you can have 3 cases, depending on the respective VSync setting:

- VSync on: framerate is capped at the maximum refresh rate of your monitor; no tearing

- VSync off: framerate exceeds the max refresh rate of your monitor and you have tearing

- Fast Sync (nVidia): excess frames are discarded, monitor works at its maximum refresh rate and NO tearing occurs

 

Edited July 20, 20232 yr by MrFuzzy

2 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

GSync tells the monitor to adapt dynamically its refresh rate to the number of fps that the GPU is delivering. But when the GPU delivers more fps than the refresh rate of the monitor, you can have 3 cases, depending on the respective VSync setting:

- VSync on: framerate is capped at the maximum refresh rate of your monitor; no tearing

- VSync off: framerate exceeds the max refresh rate of your monitor and you have tearing

- Fast Sync (nVidia): excess frames are discarded, monitor works at its maximum refresh rate and NO tearing occurs

 

Just note you want to FPS cap at something below the monitor's max refreshrate optimally, so it doesn't go into true V-sync, because then it changes from G-sync to V-Sync, which adds input lag, a potential stutter as it goes into- and out of V-sync mode. However, you still want V-sync enabled as it prevents the overshoot of frames within G-sync. Though it isn't required.

Just now, Sethos said:

Just note you want to FPS cap at something below the monitor's max refreshrate optimally, so it doesn't go into true V-sync, because then it changes from G-sync to V-Sync, which adds input lag, a potential stutter as it goes into- and out of V-sync mode. However, you still want V-sync enabled as it prevents the overshoot of frames within G-sync. Though it isn't required.

I reiterate that with a GSync monitor, VSync intended as "GPU waits for monitor refresh to deliver the next frame" occurs ONLY when the framerate exceeds the max refresh rate of the monitor. Within its VRR range there's no additional input lag regardless of the VSync setting because the monitor always refreshes in sync with the GPU.

 

1 minute ago, MrFuzzy said:

I reiterate that with a GSync monitor, VSync intended as "GPU waits for monitor refresh to deliver the next frame" occurs ONLY when the framerate exceeds the max refresh rate of the monitor. Within its VRR range there's no additional input lag regardless of the VSync setting because the monitor always refreshes in sync with the GPU.

 

V-Sync acts differently when within G-sync range. G-Sync alone does not give you a perfect tear free experience. Due to frametime variance, sometimes a frame renders too fast and becomes ready too early within the scanout cycle, then begins to scan itself on top, which can also be seen as a tear. It's less noticeable and not as prevalent as regular screen tearing but it can still happen.

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/15/#

"Wait, why should I enable V-SYNC with G-SYNC again? And why am I still seeing tearing with G-SYNC enabled and V-SYNC disabled? Isn’t G-SYNC suppose to fix that?"

Quote

The answer is frametime variances.

“Frametime” denotes how long a single frame takes to render. “Framerate” is the totaled average of each frame’s render time within a one second period.

At 144Hz, a single frame takes 6.9ms to display (the number of which depends on the max refresh rate of the display, see here), so if the framerate is 144 per second, then the average frametime of 144 FPS is 6.9ms per frame.

In reality, however, frametime from frame to frame varies, so just because an average framerate of 144 per second has an average frametime of 6.9ms per frame, doesn’t mean all 144 of those frames in each second amount to an exact 6.9ms per; one frame could render in 10ms, the next could render in 6ms, but at the end of each second, enough will hit the 6.9ms render target to average 144 FPS per.

So what happens when just one of those 144 frames renders in, say, 6.8ms (146 FPS average) instead of 6.9ms (144 FPS average) at 144Hz? The affected frame becomes ready too early, and begins to scan itself into the current “scanout” cycle (the process that physically draws each frame, pixel by pixel, left to right, top to bottom on-screen) before the previous frame has a chance to fully display (a.k.a. tearing).

G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” allows these instances to occur, even within the G-SYNC range, whereas G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” (what I call “frametime compensation” in this article) allows the module (with average framerates within the G-SYNC range) to time delivery of the affected frames to the start of the next scanout cycle, which lets the previous frame finish in the existing cycle, and thus prevents tearing in all instances.

And since G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” only holds onto the affected frames for whatever time it takes the previous frame to complete its display, virtually no input lag is added; the only input lag advantage G-SYNC + V-SYNC “Off” has over G-SYNC + V-SYNC “On” is literally the tearing seen, nothing more.

 

So for the optimal setup, you enable V-sync in NVCP and you cap at something below your monitor's G-sync / VRR range / refresh rate, 2-3 frames due to a framerate lock never being 100% accurate. Because if you have a let's say 144Hz monitor and you play a game running G-sync and with V-Sync enabled as advised above, once you hit 144FPS, it goes into traditional V-Sync, locks the framerate there but also adds the input delay of V-sync and G-sync turns off. Hitting V-sync also creates a small stutter, same if it goes out of it.

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14

So the "Optimal" G-Sync setup is to enable V-sync in NVCP and FPS cap at something below your monitor's max refreshrate, whether it be 40, 60, 120 or 141FPS, doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't hit the maximum refresh rate.

However, there's a lot of nuance in experience obviously and it also seems there's problems with V-Sync in MSFS for some people.

9 minutes ago, Sethos said:

So the "Optimal" G-Sync setup is to enable V-sync in NVCP and FPS cap at something below your monitor's max refreshrate,

Yes, and that's one of the things that nVidia Reflex does. 

If nVidia Reflex is not available for a certain game, you're right: better to manually limit the framerate slightly below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor. 

4 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

Yes, and that's one of the things that nVidia Reflex does. 

If nVidia Reflex is not available for a certain game, you're right: better to manually limit the framerate slightly below the maximum refresh rate of your monitor. 

Yeah exactly, what is described above is built-into Reflex, for that exact reason but that's obviously not available to everyone nor in every game.