5 hours ago, Orlaam said:

I bought the Honda Jet today, but I have to say, despite some extras, the Longitude and CJ4 are rather comparable.  I would tell anyone who is new to play around with the default improved aircraft to see how it goes.  I took the Cessna 172 up (analog gauge) and it was decent.  Some default planes are c*** though.  The default SR22 is a joke.  WT is improving it, so hopefully it'll be better.  The default helicopters are even decent.  I say decent because they're fun to tinker with, but they aren't in-depth simulations.  Believe me, I'd never touch a default aircraft prior to MSFS 2020, unless I was desperately trying to resolve a terrain issue or something. 

The Longitude is a lot more comparable now that AAU is out, though its mission is quite different (long-distance fast vs short-range sorta-fast). At the time I wrote that I didn't know he was gonna get Premium, though, which meant it was up in the air whether he'd get to fly the Longitude at all.

 

12 hours ago, red259 said:

Ok. That is good to know. I was just wondering because there is a new simulator coming out next year. The Longitude does look interesting

As someone who had to upgrade later to the premium deluxe, from standard,( and being very happy I did so), I’d say you made the right choice going for the top edition straight away, it gives access to some interesting updated aircraft which are payware standard.

You do raise a very valid point though that the new sim is on the horizon so you’re now into the realm of diminishing returns paying for the premium deluxe , but all things considered, I’m sure we’d all agree this remains the best option. 

23 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

the Fenix, which sort of flies by itself.

Sure it does. 

8 hours ago, ThomseN_inc said:

Sorry Bob. It's hard to take someone seriously who's first respond to everything is "haven't seen this, all perfect here, never had any issue, must be something crazy going on at your side." If you never have any problems at all why do you even bother to contribute?

Because many people fly the PMDG 737 without the issues that you claim that you are seeing, many of them are  airline pilots that fly for a living, a few even use it for their training videos. So If I don't see the problem, you say I shouldn't say anything then so you can feel better?  That's pretty weird. This thread is about someone asking what are good add ons for a new MSFS 2020 owner, not what problems you are having with the 737, so why did you start that discussion? 

Here is a thread with one person stating they are seeing what you are seeing, and many posts stating that they  do not see this issue. https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation/260361-lnav-oversteer

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Bobsk8

11 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Because many people fly the PMDG 737 without the issues that you claim that you are seeing, many of them are  airline pilots that fly for a living, a few even use it for their training videos. So If I don't see the problem, you say I shouldn't say anything then so you can feel better?  That's pretty weird. This thread is about someone asking what are good add ons for a new MSFS 2020 owner, not what problems you are having with the 737, so why did you start that discussion? 

Here is a thread with one person stating they are seeing what you are seeing, and many posts stating that they  do not see this issue. https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation/260361-lnav-oversteer

Not to make me feel better. I feel fine. Thank you. But if you can't be of a help for those actually having an issue, why respond? Makes no sense at all. But i'll let it go now. Waste of time.

1 hour ago, ThomseN_inc said:

Not to make me feel better. I feel fine. Thank you. But if you can't be of a help for those actually having an issue, why respond? Makes no sense at all. But i'll let it go now. Waste of time.

I think if someone else claims they see a problem with their sim what ever the problem, and someone  else posts that they don't see the same problem, they shouldn't receive a lecture from the one with the problem. Grow Up. 

4 hours ago, jon b said:

As someone who had to upgrade later to the premium deluxe, from standard,( and being very happy I did so), I’d say you made the right choice going for the top edition straight away, it gives access to some interesting updated aircraft which are payware standard.

You do raise a very valid point though that the new sim is on the horizon so you’re now into the realm of diminishing returns paying for the premium deluxe , but all things considered, I’m sure we’d all agree this remains the best option. 

I purchased the Standard edition last week. I was not prepar3d to pay double for a few extra planes and airports.

24 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

was not prepar3d to pay double

Very good !

I suspect you’ll probably be back with your credit card soon though!

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think if someone else claims they see a problem with their sim what ever the problem, and someone  else posts that they don't see the same problem, they shouldn't receive a lecture from the one with the problem. Grow Up. 

You're exactly the right person to tell others to grow up. lol bye bye

8 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Because many people fly the PMDG 737 without the issues that you claim that you are seeing, many of them are  airline pilots that fly for a living, a few even use it for their training videos. So If I don't see the problem, you say I shouldn't say anything then so you can feel better?  That's pretty weird. This thread is about someone asking what are good add ons for a new MSFS 2020 owner, not what problems you are having with the 737, so why did you start that discussion? 

Here is a thread with one person stating they are seeing what you are seeing, and many posts stating that they  do not see this issue. https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation/260361-lnav-oversteer

And yet here is a real world 737 pilot who says the following: https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-for-msfs/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation/272125-arinc424-radius-to-fix-paths-on-rnp-ar-approaches

Quote

It's not a Navigraph issue, it's a well known PMDG issue. Navigraph has fully -424 compliant navdata formats to include proper RF segments that are used by other manufacturer's aircraft, but the PMDG birds are still using this older navdata format that can only approximate RF segments. There have been various statements that it was being worked on throughout the years, but as of today this is still how they're doing it. Agreed, it does not yield a very realistic flight path or aircraft behavior.

Another example of it struggling to maintain a single turn to a new heading.  The wing dips, then levels off, then dips again before leveling off.  Ironically, this was never an issue until the last couple of updates.  It was fine in the beginning.  If other developers can produce a good autopilot, then this developer should be able to as well. 

Please stop insinuating the issue is a user problem and not a PMDG one.  It's like people want to chide those who have product issues, as opposed to helping them. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase, but stop diverting attention away from it by making it seem like it's a problem PMDG should ignore.  It's really childish how people act.

So I got the sim up and running. Everything looks stable. Did some of the flight training stuff to make sure my controls were working (think I will need to replace them as it is a rather old thrustmaster but will due for just getting up to speed). I'm going back and forth about whether I want to get the fenix or pmdg 737-800. 

Reviewing past threads about comparisons of the two some of the takeaways and questions I have are:

Some people opted for the Fenix over the PMDG because it had an EFB. PMDG recently released an EFB (although some have argued it is a bit sparse). Given the release of the that EFB do you think those people would likely be recommending PMDG or is the Fenix EFB much much better?

Some have said they prefer the PMDG 737 because it is last heavy on frame rates than the Fenix. Is this still the case or has Fenix been optimized over time to be less impactful on framerates? If it still has an impact on frame rates is that a hit noticeable for everybody or is it impacting people with mainly older systems. I have a RTX 4070 which is not top of the line but is a solid card for most things. Also with an update this summer they said there were performance increase so did that lower the framerate impact? 

I like to use fs2crew so I will probably pick that up. I've heard the fs2crew for the 737 is better or maybe there is just more to it with the flows. Which SOP do people recommend?

Between the two planes which ones have more systems modeled and is in depth or are they pretty much on par with each other in this category? 

I saw some people who opted for the 737 saying that there was concern Fenix weren't going to be doing more updates to the product (granted these are old threads). I noticed that Fenix has a v2 update coming in the near future (in addition to a recent upgrade this past summer), so do these upcoming changes push people more towards the Fenix? 

I'll eventually get both but wanted to start with one to deep dive into. At this point in 2023 does it simply come down to a preference between Boeing or Airbus?

Finally back to EFBs and specifically Navigraph. Do you have to pay every month (or for the year) to keep access to the charts in your EFB? Or can you buy one month and you keep the charts etc in your EFB but you just won't get the updated charts unless you resub?

I believe you have to pay for continuing access to Navigraph charts.  I do not think you can just pay for a snapshot in time because accessing Navigraph in game or from the app grants access to the server.  If you are flying in the US there are cheaper or free access to charts, but they won't integrate into the sim for obvious reasons. Navigraph has become an integral part of the sim and even updates the simulators nav data each cycle.  There are many freeware add-ons or upgrades that use the Navigraph charts to work with Simbrief. 

The PMDG Fenix thing will be one of opinion, obviously.  The EFB in the Fenix is more robust and has many more options.  It's a slightly cleaner looking EFB with Simbrief and Navigraph integration.  The Fenix EFB is slower to operate but that is currently being enhanced for the next update.  Fenix is currently working on an IAE engine model and an A319 and A321.  The A319/321 update will cost more money, but I believe the IAE update will be free.  Don't quote me on that.  Fenix did just release an update around August that improved performance, sounds, and fixes for a lot of little issues.  I see no performance hit with the Fenix or PMDG.  I think the Fenix is more immersive given how it flies and the various options included.  I was never an Airbus fan per se, but the Fenix is my preferred airliner in the sim at the moment.  The developer has devoted a lot of time to making it look and function like the real plane.  The PMDG is very visually stunning as well, and the sounds are awesome.  I think the flight dynamics of the PMDG are a little subpar (too light on controls) and the autopilot has some issues, as I've mentioned.  Apparently this doesn't affect everyone, but I can't confirm that, as they might be ignoring/overlooking the issue.  The EFB on the PMDG is a lot more basic and kinda underwhelming compared to other add-ons.

You might also check out the FBW A320.  It's free but includes a lot of very nice features and excellent tablet.  There are also 787, 747, and plenty of enhancement mods that increase the level of default aircraft to nearly payware quality. 

ETA:  I don't use FS2Crew, never have.  Can't comment on that.  Also, for controllers, it's important to note than many add-ons are very twitchy and almost hard to fly in this sim.  You really have to reduce the sensitivity and reactivity in the game to make some aircraft takeoff and land realistically.  The Fenix for example does really well with 30% reactivity, but the Honda Jet practically pitches up to 20+ degrees with little input on rotation.  Decreasing the controller reactivity to something like 10-15% made the Honda Jet much more flyable.  Tweaking settings for the controller is not something I really did with previous simulators, but this sim, either developer-dependent or the game itself, necessitated this intervention to make each add-on enjoyable.

Edited November 12, 20232 yr by Orlaam

Whether you start with Fenix or PMDG is your choice, but it would be a shame not to have both. They fly similar routes with similar results, but their methods are very different and make for interesting experiences. 
Rich

If it's still worth some advice - START SLOW.

Buy one payware jet that you know well. Like the PMDG which is still the same high quality.

Fly that jet between some default airports in areas you like to use, get used to the sim and the weather features, etc.

Out of the box, MSFS is really great due to the bing maps and photogrammetry built in. Default airports are very good this time round.

Then find one or two airports you'd like to upgrade. 

Do it slowly! There's no rush ! 

42 minutes ago, Orlaam said:

I think the Fenix is more immersive given how it flies and the various options included.

Yes being immersive is a big factor for me

 

43 minutes ago, Orlaam said:

You really have to reduce the sensitivity and reactivity in the game to make some aircraft takeoff and land realistically.

This is something I didn't really think about adjusting but yea it is hard to keep from over correcting with the stick at my current settings so maybe I will try to adjust it