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Cavemanhead

Heli Folks: Looking for the A2A Comanche 250 of Helis

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Per subject...  Or the PMDG 737 of Helis...  You get the idea.  Are there any "study level" sort of helicopters out there that are comparable in quality to the aforementioned planes?  Flight modeling is the most important priority to me.  Looking for something that's considered best in terms of "feel" relative to a real chopper.  Systems modeling is a second priority...

Any recommendations?

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You'll find a wide variety of opinions around this. Broadly, anything coded strictly within the MSFS SDK is going to be limited by it for the flight model. Not to say there aren't popular examples.

Personally I'd have to say the FlyInside Bell 206 is the best I've seen/flown for feel, flight model fidelity etc. For systems depth the HPG helos are the only ones I know of that have working, integrated, complex systems. Both of these developers relied on coding things outside of the MSFS SDK.

You might also want to have a look at what Taog's Hangar offers (payware) through the flightsim-dot-to site. The flight models are done within the SDK but he seems to have a lot of feedback from RW pilots who have flown the specific helos. I have both and like them, though not as much as my 206.

We'll have to see what MSFS 2024 brings. If the teasers weren't just teasers we'll be getting an AS350 and an Erickson Air Crane. MS will really have to up their game with the native helicopter support though. It's been talked about but time will tell.

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53 minutes ago, CapnCrunch said:



Personally I'd have to say the FlyInside Bell 206 is the best I've seen/flown for feel, flight model fidelity etc. For systems depth the HPG helos are the only ones I know of that have working, integrated, complex systems. Both of these developers relied on coding things outside of the MSFS SDK.
 

Do you fly helicopter IRL? I have Flyinside 206 and enjoyed flying it. Then I watched helicopter pilot reviewed both Flyinside and Cowan 206 concluding that both are great but Cowan is more realistic. Cowan helicopters are purely rely on native SDK


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I would say that the Flyinside is more thoroughly simulated.


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53 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Do you fly helicopter IRL? I have Flyinside 206 and enjoyed flying it. Then I watched helicopter pilot reviewed both Flyinside and Cowan 206 concluding that both are great but Cowan is more realistic. Cowan helicopters are purely rely on native SDK

I was lucky enough in the past to have a friend who was a high-time 206 pilot (10,000+ hours). I got to fly the real thing for about 15 minutes while he was instructing. I'm no expert, but the performance of the FlyInside model is pretty much bang on to me.

I don't have the Cowan Sim 206 but have all of his other releases. If the reviewer is the one I'm thinking of, I believe the guy is qualified on a Robinson R66. In his first look at FlyInside's 206 he said he couldn't dial in the settings quite right with the FlyInside stability sliders to make it fly like the R66. Actually, post the link here if you can find it.

FlyInside have some fairly detailed info on their site about how the model was created: https://flyinside-helis.com/home-206

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1 hour ago, CapnCrunch said:

I was lucky enough in the past to have a friend who was a high-time 206 pilot (10,000+ hours). I got to fly the real thing for about 15 minutes while he was instructing. I'm no expert, but the performance of the FlyInside model is pretty much bang on to me.

I don't have the Cowan Sim 206 but have all of his other releases. If the reviewer is the one I'm thinking of, I believe the guy is qualified on a Robinson R66. In his first look at FlyInside's 206 he said he couldn't dial in the settings quite right with the FlyInside stability sliders to make it fly like the R66. Actually, post the link here if you can find it.

FlyInside have some fairly detailed info on their site about how the model was created: https://flyinside-helis.com/home-206

Frankly I think riding along doesn't makes us experts LOL I flew helicopters as passenger as well, but I can't really judge.   The review I've read from ex-military rotary wing pilot. I happened to trained a lot of them transitioning back to a fix wing. So I do trust military:)

I have both Flyinside 206 and Cowan 206. I'm not a heli expert but I do enjoy them both. One thing about Flyinside though if you pause pressing ESC and then come back to the sim torque goes off the chart and 206 crash. I don't know if they ever fixed it 


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Simple answer is...  there is no A2A level helicopter in the sim unfortunately.

As far as flight model, I'm another that thinks FlyInsides offerings have the best, most detailed flight models.  What FI do have in common with A2A is their own custom flight model to bypass the MSFS default and they have both made a product that a member of the dev team actually owns and flies  (Comanche for A2A, B206 for Flyinside)  I'd not flown the FI B206 for a while but it got an update yesterday so I took her out and was instantly reminded why it's so highly praised.  The best helis using the default FM has got to be Taogs excellent Lama and Alouette.

When it comes to systems depth the clear winner is HPG's offerings. Whether they are fun to fly or not is going to be a personal thing though. I'm more of a "basic machines... hands on all the way" type.  Give me a Lama or a B47 over a modern, computer aided, systems heavy heli any day of the week!  But if you're the Airbus type who just loves having a million things to play with then there's no doubt HPG's helis are what you're looking for.

No one is doing serious A2A style wear and tear/ living aircraft style work on helis yet.   I live in hope that someone on the A2A team gets the heli bug and decided they have to do an Accusim helicopter. I can but dream.

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There just isn't a GREAT helicopter in MSFS right now.

The Flyinside B47 & 206 are probably the best in MSFS but to my mind they don't come up to the best available in DCS, X-Plane or Aerofly FS2/4

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for simulating a modern twin turbine helicopter with afcs stablization, the hpg 160 and 145 are excellent. no wear and tear sim but they're well maintained and operated.


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On 12/22/2023 at 7:44 AM, Cavemanhead said:

Per subject...  Or the PMDG 737 of Helis...  You get the idea.  Are there any "study level" sort of helicopters out there that are comparable in quality to the aforementioned planes?  Flight modeling is the most important priority to me.  Looking for something that's considered best in terms of "feel" relative to a real chopper.  Systems modeling is a second priority...

Any recommendations?

The Hype H160 for sure!  It's very detailed - it's a darn good heli...maybe the best I've ever flown (between FSX, P3D, MSFS, XP11 and 12)


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Thanks guys.  Very much appreciate the feedback!  The type I'm looking for would be relatively simple... to get the "feeling" of flying a heli and for sightseeing in FS2020 near areas where I have an interest in seeing the scenery in areas like the ORBX airports/regions...

Sounds like the ultimate experience for flight may be in XP12 so in that context what would be the best bet?    

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2 hours ago, Cavemanhead said:

Thanks guys.  Very much appreciate the feedback!  The type I'm looking for would be relatively simple... to get the "feeling" of flying a heli and for sightseeing in FS2020 near areas where I have an interest in seeing the scenery in areas like the ORBX airports/regions...

Sounds like the ultimate experience for flight may be in XP12 so in that context what would be the best bet?    

For that heli feel try the Bell 47. 
 

I have the vast majority of MSFS helicopters and the 47 still stands tall and feels more authentic than the newer types. The modelling and texturing is sun-par, but flying it is one helluva adventure. 

Edited by lupedelupe

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Helisimmer.com for reviews by IRL pilots across all the sims. 

For MSFS I'd go for the FlyInside B407

For X-Plane, I can't say enough good things about the SA315 Llama.

Bell 412 comes in a close second, but is more complex than a piper Comanche

DCS World Huey and Mi-8 are wonderful, too. 

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9 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Helisimmer.com for reviews by IRL pilots across all the sims. 

For MSFS I'd go for the FlyInside B407

For X-Plane, I can't say enough good things about the SA315 Llama.

Bell 412 comes in a close second, but is more complex than a piper Comanche

DCS World Huey and Mi-8 are wonderful, too. 

I'd add the HSF EC130 to the XP list as well as excellent modern, but not too complex, single engine turbine Heli.

Plus the Dreamfoil S300CBi - a basic piston two seater but absolutely brilliantly modelled.

Edited by Matchstick
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On 12/23/2023 at 1:20 PM, sd_flyer said:

I flew helicopters as passenger as well, but I can't really judge

You misunderstood - that was time on the controls, although yes I've had a few opportunities to just ride as a passenger too.


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