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2 hours ago, eslader said:

There's a whole branch of patent law dedicated to design patents. You commonly see design patent lawsuits crop up when shady outfits make fake car parts, like here:

https://www.carscoops.com/2017/01/bmw-sues-american-parts-company-for/

Honeycomb could absolutely get design patents on its controllers. Whether they did or not, considering their approach to other aspects of business, is another question entirely.

 

TIL. I'm more familiar with the situation in the EU, where the laws for protecting designs are considered to be essentially a limited form of copyright.

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3 hours ago, enright said:

It's crazy to me how a company can be in EXACTLY the right place (selling peripherals) at EXACTLY the right time (the launch of MSFS) with innovative products that sell like hot cakes and get great reviews... and yet still somehow manage to fail. 

It is called failure to manage growth.  It happens too often with successful products.  It is not difficult for a successful company to grow faster than its ability to fund that growth, either through adding additional investors, or by borrowing.  The answer lies in properly assessing the true ability to safely fund growth, and then limiting growth, over time, to stay under that limit.  The euphoria of success can blind the ability to make objective rather than subjective decisions both in production quantity, and in new product development.  When too far up against or beyond the limit, one market glitch can turn it topsy turvy.

I personally saw a huge, aggressive, planned new-product presence at the large Honeycomb display and experience area at last summer's Flight Sim Expo in Houston. Much of it sorking hands on prototypes. I wondered at the time how long it would take to get those products to market given some of the whisperings already circulating at the time.  All of those new product initiatives were exciting, but all also behind Charlie, yet already clearly drawing heavily upon resources.

Edited by fppilot
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Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
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VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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So much for transparency! This what I got on December 12. Why not to share that info before? Production on high gear and now he asks you to do you own credit card for refund. I ordered early last year with expectation to be deliver in April, then June, then August, then November, then December ...

"Hello everyone,
I know an update was promised after FSExpo and this is coming a little later than planned, but, I can confirm We have been working hard behind the scenes to get everything back on track. To that end, in order to ensure everything possible is being done in the most timely manner, I am personally travelling to the production factory push the production team into high gear and get the Charlie's rolling off the line as soon as possible. I can confirm the tooling is ready to go as are the workforce, We just need to ensure that the final components are correct and we not downgrading the quality of the product before we can give the go ahead to start the production line.
As I mentioned at the Expo, I would rather face a delay than sell products that contain sub-par components and leave you disappointed with our controls.
As soon as I have more news, I will be sure to pass this along to you, and with luck, it will be positive.
With best regards
Nicki Repenning
CEO"

 

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flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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45 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

So much for transparency! This what I got on December 12. Why not to share that info before? Production on high gear and now he asks you to do you own credit card for refund. I ordered early last year with expectation to be deliver in April, then June, then August, then November, then December ...

"Hello everyone,
I know an update was promised after FSExpo and this is coming a little later than planned, but, I can confirm We have been working hard behind the scenes to get everything back on track. To that end, in order to ensure everything possible is being done in the most timely manner, I am personally travelling to the production factory push the production team into high gear and get the Charlie's rolling off the line as soon as possible. I can confirm the tooling is ready to go as are the workforce, We just need to ensure that the final components are correct and we not downgrading the quality of the product before we can give the go ahead to start the production line.
As I mentioned at the Expo, I would rather face a delay than sell products that contain sub-par components and leave you disappointed with our controls.
As soon as I have more news, I will be sure to pass this along to you, and with luck, it will be positive.
With best regards
Nicki Repenning
CEO"

 

I am not a lawyer, but if other people received the same e-mail as this, and you can’t do a chargeback on your credit card because you are past the 120 day window, you probably have the basis for a class action lawsuit to get your money back. 


i5-12400, RTX 3060 Ti, 32 GB RAM

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I've been suspect of Honeycomb for a long time - I knew something was off.  I ordered (and received) my products a few years ago but even then, things were never smooth.  Always out of stock or running late - and not just by a few weeks but months!

If you've been browsing their webpage, you would have noticed replacement and add-on parts out of stock for a long time.  That's why I didn't place an order for the rudder peddles.  I knew things weren't right with the company and how Nicki didn't notice is beyond me.

I too really like my yoke and throttle but I'm worried over time with wear and tear how I'm going to replace my pieces.  

Edited by Dreamflight767

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20 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I am not a lawyer, but if other people received the same e-mail as this, and you can’t do a chargeback on your credit card because you are past the 120 day window, you probably have the basis for a class action lawsuit to get your money back. 

It would be great to have a simmer lawyer who could give legal advise for all of us . Also we can report fraud to good business bureau as of right now 


flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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7 hours ago, fppilot said:

It is called failure to manage growth.  It happens too often with successful products.

Yes! Even experienced, well-established companies fall into this trap. Something like 15 years ago, Krispy Kreme donuts started a major expansion push. They'd been a big deal throughout the US South for decades, and started to move north. They were staggeringly popular everywhere they opened - we're talking lines around the block, people waiting hours to get a box of donuts (this kind of blew my mind to be honest - they're donuts, not tickets to the last-ever CSNY concert). And suddenly almost all of the new stores were closed. Why? They expanded so fast that paying all the lease bills left them without enough money to buy ingredients to make the donuts.  Oops.

30 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I am not a lawyer, but if other people received the same e-mail as this, and you can’t do a chargeback on your credit card because you are past the 120 day window, you probably have the basis for a class action lawsuit to get your money back. 

Several problems with this.

- You can't squeeze blood out of a rock. If Honeycomb doesn't have any money, then they don't have any money to pay a lawsuit judgment.

- Attempting to squeeze blood out of that rock will require Honeycomb to defend itself, which will cost money, which will reduce the pool from which they might tender refunds and make it even less likely you'll be made whole.

- Class action lawsuits are for punishing bad actors, not for getting any sort of realistic relief for the victims. There are class actions where, for example, a company gave hundreds or even thousands of people cancer. The victims would get a sub-5-figure settlement while the lawyers walked off with millions.  More in line with this situation, fraudulent class actions involving products frequently involve the victims getting a coupon to buy more of the product at a discount. Yay, thanks, that's just what they wanted. 😉

 

 

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The only time I bought pre-order was for an "early release" version of a software. And it was on sale for 25% off.... And the sale price was only for $29... peanuts really.... but, on the other hand, it's been on early release for 2 years now. Much to their credit the devs have weekly updates... but it's a double edged sword.  On one hand, the games is actively being developed and alive.  But on the other hand, who wants to play a game which updates weekly running for two years and counting....??

If you're wondering what that game is, check it out, it's as realistic as it gets for the game type: (41) WARNO 'Warning Order' - Official Reveal Trailer - YouTube


Win 11 Pro, MSFS Deluxe, Quest 2.

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Darn. Well I guess if my bravo/alpha have issues I need to buy from somewhere else.


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23 hours ago, martinboehme said:

Maybe you only read the first email? I found that pretty confusing too.

The second one is more explicit. Some excerpts:

 

Yep, I wrote that before seeing the second letter.

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14 hours ago, Dreamflight767 said:

I too really like my yoke and throttle but I'm worried over time with wear and tear how I'm going to replace my pieces.  

Already seeing scalping on eBay and by Amazon merchants. I have one of the early original Alphas and now nearing 4 years of use..  So after receiving the emails yesterday I looked around for honest sources and found one at a regular price so that I will now have a backup.


Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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Honeycomb products I guess I liked.  But they also had many human factors issues.  The actual units were very ackward for many types of desks.  The bravo for instance was strange that it took up far more space than it should.  The switch panel was hard to label, and see.  When mounting the logitech radio panel on top (which it was designed to do) it further magnified that issue.  No hall sensors...  It was a great mid range product like I said earlier.  Far better than the lower range ones, but not as good as the top tier ones.  The charlie never made much sense to me as I think the MFG Crosswind and pendular TPR was superior.  A huge opportunity for another company to step in here.

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2 hours ago, micstatic said:

Honeycomb products I guess I liked.  But they also had many human factors issues.  The actual units were very ackward for many types of desks.  The bravo for instance was strange that it took up far more space than it should.  The switch panel was hard to label, and see.  When mounting the logitech radio panel on top (which it was designed to do) it further magnified that issue.  No hall sensors...  It was a great mid range product like I said earlier.  Far better than the lower range ones, but not as good as the top tier ones.  The charlie never made much sense to me as I think the MFG Crosswind and pendular TPR was superior.  A huge opportunity for another company to step in here.

Switch panel? Radio panel? You cerainly have  your brands confused or intermixed. Those are Saitek, then became Logitech products.  Other than a common proximity of San Diego there is no relationship to Honeycomb that I am aware of (though I have wondered about that).  My Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo products are very good if not excellent.  I added a second Bravo a couple of months ago so I can keep one configured with a 3rd party addon (Etsy) set of handles/levers for my Hjet (Hondajet) and the other configured for my Beechcraft Baron or Bonanza (also Etsy addon levers).  Keeps me from constanty needing to switch handles/levers from one segment of flights to the next,  Much easier to switch devices. 

With this current day information about Honeycomb I have already ordered a 2nd Honeycomb Alpha yoke for long term backup.  My almost 4 year old original Alpha is still as solid as new, even without the overhyped notion of Hall sensors.  So many hyped feature names have little to do with actual long term experience.

I just turned 75. These should last me "forever". And my 75 prior years have made me wiser....  I logged 450 hours+ in 2023, all with flawless Honeycomb Apha and Bravo.

I sold my Saitek/Logitech controls and panels ust as MSFS 2020 was released.  My pedals are Crosswind's.

Edited by fppilot

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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No relationship to Logitech, but worth noting the HC Alpha and Bravo are pre-drilled for mounting Logitech panels on top.  I love having the Logitech radio panel securely mounted on my Bravo without any drilling or other fuss.

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9 hours ago, fppilot said:

Switch panel? Radio panel? You cerainly have  your brands confused or intermixed. Those are Saitek, then became Logitech products.  Other than a common proximity of San Diego there is no relationship to Honeycomb that I am aware of (though I have wondered about that).  My Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo products are very good if not excellent.  I added a second Bravo a couple of months ago so I can keep one configured with a 3rd party addon (Etsy) set of handles/levers for my Hjet (Hondajet) and the other configured for my Beechcraft Baron or Bonanza (also Etsy addon levers).  Keeps me from constanty needing to switch handles/levers from one segment of flights to the next,  Much easier to switch devices. 

With this current day information about Honeycomb I have already ordered a 2nd Honeycomb Alpha yoke for long term backup.  My almost 4 year old original Alpha is still as solid as new, even without the overhyped notion of Hall sensors.  So many hyped feature names have little to do with actual long term experience.

I just turned 75. These should last me "forever". And my 75 prior years have made me wiser....  I logged 450 hours+ in 2023, all with flawless Honeycomb Apha and Bravo.

I sold my Saitek/Logitech controls and panels ust as MSFS 2020 was released.  My pedals are Crosswind's.

No actually I don't.  The holes line up perfectly.  Try it sometime if you own the stuff. They intentionally made their product so it would accommodate the other even if the two brands are not related.  I also don't think hall sensors are overhyped.  It's the reason one doesn't have to worry as much about getting backup equipment as they last far longer.  I like my bravo too though.  Like I said.  I believe it's a very good mid range throttle.  Would love to see other developers enter that space of the market.  

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5800X3D, Gigabyte X570S MB, 4090FE, 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14, EVO 970 M.2's, Alienware 3821DW  and 2  22" monitors,  Corsair RM1000x PSU,  360MM MSI MEG, MFG Crosswind, T16000M Stick, Boeing TCA Yoke/Throttle, Skalarki MCDU and FCU, Saitek Radio Panel/Switch Panel, Spad.Next

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