52 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I could care less about them not meeting their own "guesstimates" of release timelines.

I think people are allowed to be a little frustrated with a further delay (it's 'been coming' for at least 2 years per RSR's posts), especially as the release hype train was started last year.

That said, it will be forgotten by most when the 777-300 finally releases.

 

52 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

sounds like the reworked RNP/RNAV will come with the initial 777-300ER release

It does read that way. I will commend PMDG for finally pulling their finger out and deliver ARINC 424 nav capability. That's part of a new feature set in response to some the (well-deserved, IMO) criticism they faced after being called out by a known real pilot forum member.

Because of which, the 777 will be a more detailed product and PMDG will receive greater sales. A win-win situation!

Edited May 4, 20242 yr by F737MAX

1 hour ago, Snuffleupagus said:

They are all over the place… I can see now why so many people say you can’t trust what they say. 

It's not about "trust" it's more like, you sort of smile a bit and say, "ok, ok."   

For as good of products they make, they are really into release gymnastics.  So much so that I think it's kinda intentional.

It’s plain embarrassing imo. PMDG is still using the same workarounds for DME arcs they were using in c. 2002 and which I remember thinking were pretty underwhelming back in 2007. Unimpressive at the time: risible now that we have the likes of the Fenix and the free FBW - both of which simulate ARINC 424 faithfully. This is core functionality, not silly sound effects from a virtual lavatory or pictures of a pogo stick and the like.

I copy below a post from the spin-doctor-in-chief back in March 2019, admitting that they hadn’t updated the relevant logic since 2002 (yes you read that correctly) and that ARINC simulation was “long overdue”.

Yet here we are, another 5 years on, and … zilch.

Pretty poor show. 

——————

 

“24Mar2019, 20:15

Gents,

Before you all run off in a mis-informed tangent: kyle did not provide you with accurate information on the question that was asked. Instead he provided an incomplete answer to a related topic. We shall presume minimum crew rest and fatigue. LOL

To answer the question that was asked; The core LNAV functionality of our products traces it's dna to logic that was written in 2002 for our original NG1.0. It has been expanded and adapted over the years, but unlike most of the other systems on the airplane it has not yet received a comprehensive overhaul designed to modernize the code. This overhaul will improve efficiency, accuracy and flexibility, while also making it easier for us to capitalize on some navigation methods that didn't exist when we wrote the original structure eighteen years ago.

Related to this, is our work to upgrade from our 2001-era navdata design in order to use both Navigraph and Aerosoft navigation data in their default "modified ARINC 424" format. This piece is what Kyle accidentally referenced, and is actually the larger of the two pieces being upgraded. we have wanted to do this for a few years now, but it would require a huge change to the LNAV solver and thus we needed to wait until the right timing was in place with respect to developer time, etc.

With the move to using a more modern navdata process, we will then have the ability to add data-defined navigation processes to our fleet that did not yet exist when we first designed our current database methodology. This is long overdue and i have been talking about trying to slot it into our development flow for a few years.

Thirdly, since we are in the neighborhood of redefining lateral control, we are going to be conducting a major upgrade of the flight directory logic in order to make it behave more realistically in all aspects of airplane control.

Most of these changes won't be readily apparently to you in individual cases, but you will notice that the airplanes simply behave better.

The changes will go into the 737, 747 and 777 once they are ready- but initial testing will take place in the 747.”

"I mentioned that I thought we were somewhere around two months out. If you ask me today, I will give you the same answer "

so it's another two months?

offensive initials not allowed 😄

2 minutes ago, tfm said:

Yet here we are, another 5 years on, and … zilch.

Pretty poor show. 

I'm not PMDG's biggest fan, but this is way off.

Do you really think that after making a big song and dance about how the nav data capability is going to appear in the 777 that it will still be stuck with the old PMDG way of drawing DME arcs and the like? They would be crucified if they did that.

I'm going to confidently say, your comment is unfounded.

Just now, F737MAX said:

I'm not PMDG's biggest fan, but this is way off.

Do you really think that after making a big song and dance about how the nav data capability is going to appear in the 777 that it will still be stuck with the old PMDG way of drawing DME arcs and the like? They would be crucified if they did that.

I'm going to confidently say, your comment is unfounded.

My point is that they still haven’t done it, not that they won’t do it if / when they eventually get round to the long-promised 777.

I think they’re just not all that good by today’s standards, especially after a while using the Fenix: feels like a whole different league.

 

1 hour ago, Snuffleupagus said:

They are all over the place… I can see now why so many people say you can’t trust what they say. 

No Doubt. 

People get all worked up over this PMDG Stuff. Don't be "Randazzled"!

It will release when it does, not a big deal in one's life!!!

1 minute ago, tfm said:

My point is that they still haven’t done it

Technicially correct, yes. Yet, unlike before they were stung by the reaction to the criticism, they've actually listened and are implementing it. If they continued to be tone deaf, then your comment would be truly valid.

4 minutes ago, tfm said:

I think they’re just not all that good by today’s standards

At this moment in time, I agree. They've rested on their laurels for far too long. That's why I'm hoping some competition in the Boeing payware space from BlueBird Sim and iFly forces PMDG to rediscover their innovative side.

8 minutes ago, tfm said:

My point is that they still haven’t done it, not that they won’t do it if / when they eventually get round to the long-promised 777.

I think they’re just not all that good by today’s standards, especially after a while using the Fenix: feels like a whole different league.

I either fly the Fenix or the PMDG 737. Flying the Fenix, about one out of  roughly seven flights I hit a bug of one sort or another. Sometime I post on their discord page when this happens, but it is then just another bug that is posted by someone else,  so it eventually just get's lost in the mix. Add to that their update frequency, that is usually measured in months, I just learn to live with. Now to the 737, flight after flight, zero problems. It just works, and works correctly. If someone doesn't mind bugs, the Fenix is fine. 

Edited May 4, 20242 yr by Bobsk8

3 hours ago, Andrew2448 said:

Lol. No, you said we are "within two months now, as a firm thing" as a direct quote.To say that again now at the end of those two months is pretty insulting.

It's not the first time. In 2020, Randazzo said that perhaps the PMDG 737 could come out by the end of 2020. Well, he was off by 2 years. 

Then around late spring or early summer of 2021, he estimated perhaps the PMDG 737 could be released by the fall of 2021.  Nope, he was off again by like 8 months.

Well, I said I would be surprised if it takes another month for PMDG to release the 777.  This is based on the amount of time the PMDG 737 spent in beta, which was about 3 months.  Now I am surprised, because the PMDG 777 has been in beta for almost 4 months now?  I honestly thought it would release within the next 2 weeks.  But if Randazzo is saying there will be a 2 week notification before it's released, then it just may well take PMDG another 4 weeks. And we're talking about another 4 weeks, that's practically a month already so there is a decent chance it may take PMDG more than a month to release the 777.  Now I would be surprised if it took PMDG another 2 months to release it.  But who knows.  Randazzo said he wants to release the 777 as more polished than when the 737 was released for MSFS, so in the worst case scenario, another 2 months is possible.  Hopefully not, but it seems like Randazzo wants everything to be more polished, and the quality to be a little better than when the 737 was released for MSFS.

All I  have to say is this MS or Asobo fault? Seems like the skapegoat for developers these days. Not only dev's but dev's fanbases too. Scary don't bite the hand that feeds you. MS surely don't need you or me.

Edited May 4, 20242 yr by JBDB-MD80

I still think there is a high likelihood that we could go into MSFS2024 before we see a full featured-modern-payware-widebody.

You guys need to add about 6 months to a year on to whatever RSR says...lol.

I'm sticking to my plan to wait a few months and put 778 PMD VS 777v2 FF on a scale and then choose I think I've already spent too much money on hasty purchases that didn't turn out to be what I expected.

The good thing about not closing the doors to any sim is that you have more to choose from.

Honestly, if this comes with RF legs out of the box, and the 737 will get them shortly after, they can take as long as they want.