On 8/12/2024 at 8:36 PM, Luke said:

I'm not sure why you say that. There's no evidence for it, both in flight sim or software in general.

The most expensive unit of software is the first unit sold. You have a tremendous fixed cost of developing the software in the first place, plus the infrastructure needed to sell and support it. Early releases have bugs, because no matter how comprehensive the test suite and program, it doesn't compare to the wide variety of use cases it's subjected to in real life (which is equally true for real aircraft). The bugs actually need fixed. This is why the lowest gross margins happen at launch.

The only marginal costs PMDG have left are those required to physically sell the aircraft, which for their own infrastructure amounts to pennies per unit sold (costs by the way shared across all product lines). I've heard anecdotally that many support requests (not unique to PMDG) are around the store, registration and licensing, again not particular to P3D products.

The P3D products have never been more profitable than they are now.

Cheers

If their P3D line was not only profitable, but NEVER MORE PROFITABLE than now, it would still be on sale.

Everyone keeps saying why it doesn't make sense based on assumptions about their costs, but no one is explaining why then - assuming Randazzo is a rational actor - they would have removed them from sale.  Assuming he hasn't lost his mind, the obvious answer is some kind of cost we aren't aware of.

Post twice for some reason.

Edited August 17, 20241 yr by Scottoest

4 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

the obvious answer is some kind of cost we aren't aware of

Or..some kind of politics/exclusivity agreement.

You pay someone to HOST your shopping cart, or someone else's cart to supply it. I've never heard of an an ongoing cost PER digital download ever.

With someone else they get a cut, no cost upfront to you.

With your OWN cart your annual fee means any number of items (up to agreed limit) are the same cost.

To put my money where my own big mouth is, I've just purchased the QOTS2 + 8 expansion for P3D off Aerosoft. Thanks @Ray Proudfoot!

I've been flying it at night in FSX last 2 weeks and it is still fantastic. Only pain is having to reload during cruise to avoid OOM. $200 for the two addons for P3D.

Here's the irony, I don't even OWN P3d yet lol! I believe that good products should be available to me when I want to use them so I've just guaranteed that.

Also, I have to use the right mouse options that are so good with classic PMDG planes due to finger/eye issues that will not be getting better. The PMDG 737 in MSFS is that LAST plane they will ALLOW users to choose their personal choice in. From now on it's ASOBE way or the highway.

BTW, has anyone else here ever purchased an expensive addon for a sim they don't even own just to guarantee they will be able to be able to fly it in future?

Of course if LM withdraw all legacy versions of their sim except 6 I'm royally word not allowed!! They will not though, and not without fair warning I'm sure. Arbitrary decisions like that are in the PMDG domain only it seems. 

Now I need just bend that cc again and purchase P3d v5 Pro. A simmers gotta do what a simmers got to do to keep it SERIOUS.

For me, MSFS for VFR daytime only, FSX/p3D for IFR and night flights.

 

11 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Or..some kind of politics/exclusivity agreement.

PMDG are one of the 3PDs Asobo haven't worked particularly close with, apart from supporting them with issues because they're obviously one of the bigger 3PDs out there.  So it would be an understatement to say I don't think any exclusivity agreement is the issue.  And if they were doing such agreements you would see more of it beyond PMDG.  Also, to be frank, P3D isn't big enough at this point for Microsoft to really care.

If they were gonna make that kind of deal they would've done it four years ago, not now when MSFS largely dominates the market.

5 minutes ago, Scottoest said:

I don't think any exclusivity agreement is the issue

 I'm thinking not an actual agreement but PMDG bending over backwards to 'comply' for the marketplace and console market especially.

They removed that right click classic PMDG interface and stated it was for ASOBE compliance. Not like PMDG at all (especially CLASSIC PMDG) to NOT do it their way at all times to heck with what people think.

They reversed the weather map display decision instead of holding out to put pressure on Asobe to allow SDK access for weather addons.

Regardless of actual agreements PMDG are as of now exclusively an MSFS ONLY developer. Support ONLY for other sims.

35 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Not like PMDG at all (especially CLASSIC PMDG) to NOT do it their way at all times to heck with what people think.

Many year follower of PMDG and this is what's surprising to me. Historically Robert always seemed to be such an independent maverick sort of guy always holding his ground against external pressures. I remember some row he had with Valve (Steam) over something I don't remember the details of and he was never shy about airing details on the forum to users, even when their forum was on Avsim.  Now he's in lock step with ASOBO and finger waving those of us that chose not to jump on the train. Has ASOBO managed to put a ring in the bulls' nose? 

6 minutes ago, Patco Lch said:

Has ASOBO managed to put a ring in the bulls' nose? 

I'd place a hefty bet it was the Marketplace (TM) compliance that swung it. If you read between the lines on the PMDG forums you can see the barely hidden derision the devs have for that place and the obvious hints NOT to buy their planes there despite almost perpetual sales.

Money doesn't just walk, apparently. It FLIES too now. 

3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Given this is a topic about PMDG let’s get back on topic please.

You changed the topic first. Come on, let’s not go there. 
 

the topic seems to have been covered to death. 

3 hours ago, Scottoest said:

If their P3D line was not only profitable, but NEVER MORE PROFITABLE than now, it would still be on sale.

Everyone keeps saying why it doesn't make sense based on assumptions about their costs, but no one is explaining why then - assuming Randazzo is a rational actor - they would have removed them from sale.  Assuming he hasn't lost his mind, the obvious answer is some kind of cost we aren't aware of.

This is a good point.

MilViz/BlackBird (one of the best P3D devs) said that their P3D sales had dropped to essentially single digits per week just before they stopped selling them.

And that it wasn't profitable any.longer.

Any customer contact, even if it's just signing you up for the relevant.support portal, is expensive, etc.

As @Luke says their ROI per P3D unit has never been larger, however their P3D volumes are obviously now a small component compared to their MSFS volumes.

Their issue is that they are not a part of the licensed commercial and military market and therefore are slaves to MS as they do not make their $$ from such contracts where billions are spent so they go for the market where they are most familiar.

And they are doing it wierdly because they can and have always treated customers with aloof distain, and are probably intending to suck up any noise generated because eventually they feel it will all just go away if ignored long enough.

A great way to win friends and influence people - not !

I surmise there will likely be issues for any MSFS dev crew should the up and coming 2024 replacement sim turn out to introduce bugs and a need for code review and redevelopment, although coming from working in software reseach and development for some decades, I can say any new software release will always come with its own unique and exciting problems to overcome.

Cheers

 

There’s a whole lot of nonsense talk going on here. 

Really need to give my trusty crystal ball a polish! 🙂

We don't know how much sales PMDG made for more than a decade offering their products for P3D / FSX only. 

So those of you that say that because servers of PMDG overloaded when MSFS got their products available is complete nonsense. 

You guys don't know how much sales there is for PMDG. 

So here those arguments for which sim PMDG had sold more are nonsense as well. 

I am saying this because the subject became too large and the hidden topic here is not how much PMDG makes but how better is one sim over another. 

Which by my opinion is toxicity. 

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by Ronda_sim
had to add something.

On that point I’m going to lock this topic. Everyone has had their say. Let’s see if PMDG open sales for P3D again. I very much doubt they will.