One thing with A330. Last I checked, no one flies default 737 either... Everyone flies Zibo, though. A330 is better than default 737, so leaps were made in quality of default. Remember default airliners MSFS2020 originally shipped with? WAY below par with XP12's. Also.... I believe Toliss is working on an A330. Why would I care all that much about the default A330 in XP12 when I can buy a Toliss one for XP12 and MSFS2024 will come with default A330 from iniBuilds? I think that's all the A330s I need. 

1 hour ago, Bjoern said:

Oh boy, are you missing out. Airliners and their bugs aside, XP12's GA lineup is A+.

Also, that "never used a default aircraft in any sim" statement is absolutely ridiculous because I'm 100% certain you've tried at least one simulator that can not be modded. If I hooked you up to a lie detector and asked you about each of the titles on these list, I'd get a buzz at the latest after item 50:

Ha ha! That's why I said "full" flight 😁

I've absolutely tried every single Default in every single sim I own.

XP v12's are genuinely good, and significantly better than v11's.

And the ones in MSFS have become legit payware quality, too.

But it always boils down to just a few laps around the pattern, or a short hop just a stones throw to another airport.

But my time for flying is so limited that when I take a cold start "serious simmer" flight, it's never in a default addon.

Curiously, I used to be very big into combat flight games. But I took about a 30 year break from gaming of all kinds.

So I went from MicroProse F-19 Stealth Fighter and skipped all the way to X-Plane 11, figured out that flight sim had become more sim than game, and jumped right back in the deep end.

And I have my youngest son to thank for it due to his abiding love of aircraft of all sorts. He'll be leaving for the USAF in about a year - and I'd join him in a second if I could.

4 hours ago, GoranM said:

My expectations for default aircraft, in ANY sim, are very low.  

If you want to set low expectations for default aircraft, check out the line up in Prepar3D!

The only tolerable one is the F-35, and even then...

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

If you want to set low expectations for default aircraft, check out the line up in Prepar3D!

The only tolerable one is the F-35, and even then...

It amazes me that LM has not updated them. They LOOK awful, they FLY awful.... The only default one I tried there was the Carenado Commander but even that one is dire... The default avionics are horrible too. This is inexcusable. If they have no interest in having anything even half-way decent, just remove all those junky aircraft from the official sim release. Leave one decent one and just make everyone buy anything - well... there isn't much to buy anymore either. 

I can kind of get where P3D are coming from.  The commercial market is not at the top of their list.  AFAIK.  They had operating expenses of $60 billion up to March of this year.  A flight sim that brings them some pocket change isn't going to make them set other priorities aside to please a bunch of avgeeks.  😛

On 8/15/2024 at 10:03 AM, himmelhorse said:

whilst MSFS is for GA

GA as in B

727, 737, 777, 787, A320, A300, MD11, MD82, BAe146, DC-6, ERJ 170, F28, CRJ 700, ATR 42 etc. etc. 😃

after you are done with GA flying: it also supports the most advanced IFR procedures like RNAV/VNAV/RNP approaches, made possible by the most feature-complete GPS implementation in any flight simulator. and yes you are right, it is also undoubtedly the best simulator for GA and VFR. But I don't blame you for making that uneducated statement since you don't own MSFS ....

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/RNAV_QFSheet.pdf

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by turbomax

On 8/15/2024 at 11:11 PM, UrgentSiesta said:

So I went from MicroProse F-19 Stealth Fighter and skipped all the way to X-Plane 11, figured out that flight sim had become more sim than game, and jumped right back in the deep end.

Falcon BMS and thank me later.

You'll also have a subject to talk about with your son in case he gets to work on F-16s.

1 hour ago, turbomax said:

like 737, 777, MD11 etc. 😃

after you are done with GA flying: it also supports the most advanced IFR procedures like RNAV/VNAV/RNP approaches, made possible by the most feature-complete GPS implementation in any flight simulator. and yes, it is also undoubtedly the best simulator for GA and VFR. But I don't blame you for making that uneducated statement since you don't own MSFS ....

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/RNAV_QFSheet.pdf

The most feature complete GPS implementation in any simulator? I haven’t seen a better simulation of the GPS-receiver than in the CL650. Avionicswise it is on par but the flight dynamics are very basic (ground-behaviour or flare is bad, inertia isn‘t correctly simulated, RWY braking-coefficients according to the contamination are not accurately simulated). Every professional airliner pilot will confirm that it is below what XP achieves in that regard, except some very rare ones who work for PMDG or similar. And I am not even talking about the lack of impact of stormy-clouds, who has literally zero effect (totally unrealistic). No, the advantage of MSFS is clearly in the VFR-area where the more detailled scenery offers more advantages than disadvantages. Above 5000ft those advantage are gone.

As a flight simulator, X-Plane is better. As an advanced game and for VFR MSFS flight. I have both and I stick with X-Plane.

Something that LR should do with X-plane 12 is that the scenery_packs.ini is sorted automatically without the user having to do it manually. And I already know that xOrganizer exists, but I think that MSFS is much more advanced in that regard. You install an airport and use it without having to modify anything.

But I repeat. Simulator is X-Plane

1 minute ago, Guido1996 said:

X-Plane is better.

in your opinion.

1 minute ago, turbomax said:

in your opinion.

Obviously! In my opinion it is superior and the flight also seems more faithful to reality. In MSFS it seems somewhat unreal to me how airplanes fly.

14 minutes ago, Guido1996 said:

MSFS it seems somewhat unreal to me how airplanes fly.

are you a pilot? what real aircraft have you piloted, which tests have you performed (inertia, stall, stability, ground effect) to come to that conclusion or is this just again your "opinion obviously"?

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by turbomax

Just now, turbomax said:

are you a pilot? what real aircraft have you piloted, which tests have you performed (inertia, stall, ground effect) to come to that conclusion or is this just again your "opinion obviously"?

I flew C152 and C172. The X-Plane seems much more real to me. Furthermore, I am not interested in getting into any discussion with you. I just gave my opinion and an idea of what XP could do with the scenery_packs.ini. Greetings

11 minutes ago, Guido1996 said:

I just gave my opinion and an idea of what XP could do with the scenery_packs.ini.

thanks for clarifying it is just your opinion with no facts, tests nor real pilot experience to support it. good to know.

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by turbomax

17 minutes ago, turbomax said:

are you a pilot? what real aircraft have you piloted, which tests have you performed (inertia, stall, stability, ground effect) to come to that conclusion or is this just again your "opinion obviously"?

Ah, the “are you an expert in the field you have an opinion on” argument. 
I don’t need to be a chef to know the food tastes bad in a restaurant I’m eating in. 
But if that’s your argument, Austin has been a pilot for 30 years, and he wrote X-Plane, and is convinced it’s the best flight model in the commercial market. He also has several staff working for him who are also pilots. One of them being a Lufthansa Captain rated on Boeings and Airbuses. So your argument is moot. 

Edited August 18, 20241 yr by GoranM