8 hours ago, Kaiii3 said:

no BGLs in MSFS by AIG only AIGFP

Then I can confirm it is definitely working without launching AIGTC.   

 

@Luis Hernandez I wanted to thank you again.  Wow, coming from PF3 FSHUD is a real treat!!  I admit I miss the voice sets from PF3, some of the real voice recordings and the accents matching the geographies and airlines in PF3 were nice but outside of that FSHUD has:

• Ability to run on a networked machine
• Ability to interact via voice, definable keyboard or joystick commands
• traffic integration (seamless) with AIG (can't speak for others, that's all I use)
• Traffic control and separation
• Traffic limiter (if necessary for performance)
• Accurate Taxi map and instructions
• Seamless Simbrief integration (or native flight planning/importing if desired)
• Seamless SID assignment via Simbrief
• ActiveSky integration
• Co-Pilot comms control
• en-route traffic monitoring

So overall thus far I am very pleased, especially coming from PF3 "however" I am yet to experience descent, approach and landing 🙂   

I'm also very concerned after reading this post as I am one of the users sitting for 5 hours performing trans oceanic flights.  I don't think features for ATC should be decided by the developers personal preference opposed to real life procedures.  So this part is concerning for me and it does seem like there are a number of feature requests on the V2 Discord that I tend to agree with as well.  But overall, very pleased "thus far" and thank you again @Luis Hernandez for responding and pointing me in the right direction.

Edit:  The post below must be dated as there is indeed Oceanic Center.  It does not appear to be a simulation of real world Oceanic Procedures but you do get passed to Oceanic throughout the flight

Now with all that said, SayIntentions does also appear to do a lot of the above, does support Oceanic but does not appear to interact with AI, is that correct?  

SayIntentions voices do also sound considerably better however $34.95 vs $192/yr is also a significant difference!  

Edited October 12, 20241 yr by psolk
misspelled assignment

51 minutes ago, psolk said:

Then I can confirm it is definitely working without launching AIGTC.   

 

The FSHud developers understandably have provided very limited information about how they implement AIG flight injection, as they presumably want to protect their intellectual property, so this mostly guesswork on my part.

• They have somehow worked out how to pull certain information from the AIGFP files, such as the scheduled times, the departure and destination airports etc.
• I don't believe they use any of the flight plan data from AIG - they create a flight plan for each flight using their internal tools.
• Only airports near to the user aircraft are searched to locate suitable AIG flights. This means that most AIG aircraft are either near their departure or arrival airports.
• Any AI Flights determined by the above are added to an internal FSHud database so that it can be queried in subsequent flights to determine if any AIG flights approach close to the user aircraft. This may result in some enroute traffic.
• The internal database is cleared whenever there is a scenery change - for example a World Update, the addition of a payware or freeware airport, etc. This will lose all the enroute traffic again.
• I asked if there could be an option to build a complete database for all AIG aircraft so that we get a realistic amount of enroute traffic. FSHud have indicated that this will be done, but have not committed to timescale, and have suggested that to complete this database build process it would take some time (hours?) and this would have to happen while the user aircraft is active (at the gate?, in flight? - not sure on this).
• I suspect that there will be no dynamic flight plan support. In any case FSHud does not currently support VFR flights so this may be a stopper if dynamic flight plans are VFR.
• There is an interface available in FSHud to provide all of the necessary data to enable it to inject an AI aircraft and flight. This either the same interface, or very similar to, the one used by the FSLTL injector to interact with FSHud. In theory, this interface could be used by an enhanced AIGTC, but that would require AIG and FSHud developers to cooperate to get this working.

All this being said, I'm very happy with FSHud, and despite my comments I still find that the AIG aircraft within FSHud provide a very immersive experience.

Edited October 12, 20241 yr by ConstVoid

15 minutes ago, ConstVoid said:

The FSHud developers understandably have provided very limited information about how they implement AIG flight injection, as they presumably want to protect their intellectual property, so this mostly guesswork on my part.

• They have somehow worked out how to pull certain information from the AIGFP files, such as the scheduled times, the departure and destination airports etc.
• I don't believe they use any of the flight plan data from AIG - they create a flight plan for each flight using their internal tools.
• Only airports near to the user aircraft are searched to locate suitable AIG flights. This means that most AIG aircraft are either near their departure or arrival airports.
• Any AI Flights determined by the above are added to an internal FSHud database so that it can be queried in subsequent flights to determine if any AIG flights approach close to the user aircraft. This may result in some enroute traffic.
• The internal database is cleared whenever there is a scenery change - for example a World Update, the addition of a payware or freeware airport, etc. This will lose all the enroute traffic again.
• I asked if there could be an option to build a complete database for all AIG aircraft so that we get a realistic amount of enroute traffic. FSHud have indicated that this will be done, but have not committed to timescale, and have suggested that to complete this database build process it would take some time (hours?) and this would have to happen while the user aircraft is active (at the gate?, in flight? - not sure on this).
• I suspect that there will be no dynamic flight plan support. In any case FSHud does not currently support VFR flights so this may be a stopper if dynamic flight plans are VFR.
• There is an interface available in FSHud to provide all of the necessary data to enable it to inject an AI aircraft and flight. This either the same interface, or very similar to, the one used by the FSLTL injector to interact with FSHud. In theory, this interface could be used by an enhanced AIGTC, but that would require AIG and FSHud developers to cooperate to get this working.

All this being said, I'm very happy with FSHud, and despite my comments I still find that the AIG aircraft within FSHud provide a very immersive experience.

Thank you for that insight!

I should have clarified "working" vs fully functional and "working as AIG expected"  

 

I see SI has a free 24 hour trial, I may try that next 🙂  

In either case it seems like after many many years the last of my OnCourse Software products is finally retired.   I must say, FDC, PF3, PFE all gave me YEARS of great use!!!  Thank you @Dave March

1 hour ago, ConstVoid said:

They have somehow worked out how to pull certain information from the AIGFP files, such as the scheduled times, the departure and destination airports etc.

AIGFP Format is open to the public, we have the documentation and C# Library hosted on our Forum 😉

2 hours ago, Kaiii3 said:

AIGFP Format is open to the public, we have the documentation and C# Library hosted on our Forum 😉

They don't seem to be utilizing the full flight plan.  As soon as I got away from land and went Oceanic FSHUD shows 0 aircraft injected.   That's definitely on par with what I see with AIGTC as I routinely pass other Oceanic traffic.  

So "either" FSHUD traffic injection has crashed altogether or it will resume when I get closer to the other side of the pond.   

This is definitely not the same as running AIGTC though I see 0 traffic injected from FSHUD during Oceanic Cruise and I don't see any traffic getting injected even as I get closer to Shannon Center.   

Watching the FSHUD "how to" videos it appears I can still manually launch AIGTC it's just FSHUD won't be able to control the AI which may be my workaround.   

Edit:  I've been doing some testing and from what I can tell it looks like FSHUD has a range of how far from the user aircraft it injects traffic.  If I launch AIGTC while cruising Oceanic it shows 6 aircraft around me however none of them appear to be with 60-70 miles of me judging from the PFD.   FSHUD shows 0 however when I got closer to EIKY I suddenly got 1 AI injected...  
So it appears it is only injecting within a certain range of the user aircraft from what I can discern.  

Edited October 12, 20241 yr by psolk

3 hours ago, Kaiii3 said:

AIGFP Format is open to the public, we have the documentation and C# Library hosted on our Forum 😉

Hello friends 🙂🙂🙂.
I just see all the time here "FSHud FSHud FSHud FSHud".

Therefore I think I will give some attention to it.

1. First regarding flight plans:

I know that you provide flight plans in AIGFP files, but I think it is not enough sufficient.
First of all - those flight plans are static - can you guarantee that they will match CURRENT AIRAC, OUTDATED AIRAC and all possible options if procedures runways for the airport are changing?
Therefore we are generating flight plans in our (more complex format that includes all this consistency) using only schedules from AIGFP files.

I've mentioned it previously somewhere (😁 oh, my mind) - you will only see traffic that from airports that you have ever visited or visited it's airport area (up to 100nm).
But for example - if you sit in EDDF with empty database (fresh install) and never visited EGLL for example or OMDB - then you will not see any of EGLL->OMDB traffic aircrafts bypassing over you.
However - it works in such way that over the time you get more and more traffic (because during your flight you're visiting more and more airports).

Regarding formats - I think we've done enough in order to integrate ourselves with AIG with kind of reverse engineering of AIG format (looks like @Kaiii3 is too busy for those things).
But I can say to this "Open format" - that on the same way, we have open API that FSLTL uses to inject traffic into FSHud - so AIG can use this API to inject their new format after modification.
@Kaiii3 I can provide you all necessary information if you want.
Last thing to mention - I'm not about to "fight" who will use whose format - but I can say one thing:
Our API SDK wasn't changed since release and can't be changed because FSLTL uses it - while nothing prevents from AIG to change their format tomorrow and make library and documentation obsolete.

P. S. You can always ask me any questions here or in discord channel - no need to guess.

Have a good flights and great coding!

37 minutes ago, FSHud said:

Our API SDK wasn't changed since release and can't be changed because FSLTL uses it - while nothing prevents from AIG to change their format tomorrow and make library and documentation obsolete.

FYI: AIGFP can not be changed as well, already a few 3rd party Devs using it 😉

38 minutes ago, FSHud said:

kind of reverse engineering of AIG format (looks like @Kaiii3 is too busy for those things).

To bussy for what?

 

39 minutes ago, FSHud said:

@Kaiii3 I can provide you all necessary information if you want.

A Documentation would be a great start, i coukd not find any public for your API yet.

3 hours ago, FSHud said:

Hello friends 🙂🙂🙂.
I just see all the time here "FSHud FSHud FSHud FSHud".

Yes, I just purchased it and getting my arms around it, really enjoying it thus far.  Lots of plusses that I like that I listed above.

You answer of how it builds a database of traffic to inject as you fly explains why on my first long haul from the US to Western Asia the number of AI flights is so low...  It is learning as it goes.  

I fired up AIGTC over Europe and had over 160 AI around Frankfurt, I had 6 in FSHUD.   So this is a very big difference and if I understand every time I fly a new route I can expect very little traffic while FSHUD builds its database.  Right now as I approach Athens enroute FSHUD is displaying 8 active and 0 parked aircraft.  If I am understanding correctly, if I do this same route tomorrow there should be more.  

I will say at my arrival airport it was far busier.  Hold before crossing, 26 parked aicraft, 13 active, still far below AIG but it " felt" busy.

Until then can I launch AIGTC understanding FSHUD will not control them while FSHUD learns and builds its own database?

Again, really impressive, lots of things to like about FSHUD!!  Coming from PF3 this is heavenly LOL 

Thank you.  

Edited October 12, 20241 yr by psolk

3 hours ago, psolk said:

Yes, I just purchased it and getting my arms around it, really enjoying it thus far.  Lots of plusses that I like that I listed above.

You answer of how it builds a database of traffic to inject as you fly explains why on my first long haul from the US to Western Asia the number of AI flights is so low...  It is learning as it goes.  

I fired up AIGTC over Europe and had over 160 AI around Frankfurt, I had 6 in FSHUD.   So this is a very big difference and if I understand every time I fly a new route I can expect very little traffic while FSHUD builds its database.  Right now as I approach Athens enroute FSHUD is displaying 8 active and 0 parked aircraft.  If I am understanding correctly, if I do this same route tomorrow there should be more.  

I will say at my arrival airport it was far busier.  Hold before crossing, 26 parked aicraft, 13 active, still far below AIG but it " felt" busy.

Until then can I launch AIGTC understanding FSHUD will not control them while FSHUD learns and builds its own database?

Again, really impressive, lots of things to like about FSHUD!!  Coming from PF3 this is heavenly LOL 

Thank you.  

Those numbers are much smaller than expected.
Possibly something with installation - I'm getting around 50 in MSFS with pretty weak PC.
Please open a ticket to see logs for further investigation.

5 minutes ago, FSHud said:

Those numbers are much smaller than expected.
Possibly something with installation - I'm getting around 50 active in MSFS with pretty weak PC.
Please open a ticket to see logs for further investigation.

Please delete (double comment)

Edited October 13, 20241 yr by FSHud
Please delete (double comment)

I have opened a ticket on this, will keep the community updated as right now FSHUD shows 4 active aircraft on my current flight, if I fire up AIGTC I have 18 aircraft on my PFD within 40 miles.  

My main point in posting this was to help others that may have the same misconception. 

FSHUD is not a replacement for AIGTC.  If you were expecting to stop using AIGTC and use AIG via FSHUD then you will not have a 1:1 experience.  As explained FSHUD is doing a lot to "handle" and separate traffic, especially on landing where I saw a PERFECT separation of 4 airliners coming in to land but it is not injecting nearly the same amount of traffic as AIG does natively.  

3 hours ago, psolk said:

I have opened a ticket on this, will keep the community updated as right now FSHUD shows 4 active aircraft on my current flight, if I fire up AIGTC I have 18 aircraft on my PFD within 40 miles.  

My main point in posting this was to help others that may have the same misconception. 

FSHUD is not a replacement for AIGTC.  If you were expecting to stop using AIGTC and use AIG via FSHUD then you will not have a 1:1 experience.  As explained FSHUD is doing a lot to "handle" and separate traffic, especially on landing where I saw a PERFECT separation of 4 airliners coming in to land but it is not injecting nearly the same amount of traffic as AIG does natively.  

To remind - v2 is still in silent Alpha and this issue is definitely in plans for improvements in scope of v2 (Alpha or Beta).
It was also asked from users (who participate in v2 alpha) not to share much information about it - because all of this is currently under intense development and things are not ready enough
for public opinion.

Thank you

I hate to bring up another ATC program, but the more I use BATC, the more I like it. They need to iron out a couple of things, but it doesn't get in the way of enjoying it, and even the basic voices are the best I have ever heard in any ATC flight sim program. 

33 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I hate to bring up another ATC program, but the more I use BATC, the more I like it. They need to iron out a couple of things, but it doesn't get in the way of enjoying it, and even the basic voices are the best I have ever heard in any ATC flight sim program. 

I am with you. It is easy all around and just works. Yes, they have some work to do but what we have now is not bad at all. I just uninstalled FSHud but we have a look down the road. But BATC is really what I am looking for as far as a user experience is concerned. 

6 hours ago, FSHud said:

To remind - v2 is still in silent Alpha and this issue is definitely in plans for improvements in scope of v2 (Alpha or Beta).
It was also asked from users (who participate in v2 alpha) not to share much information about it - because all of this is currently under intense development and things are not ready enough
for public opinion.

Thank you

Even in Alpha or Beta it is performing extremely well and I believe the traffic issue was as you said FSHUD building it's database.  

I reduced FSHUD to 50 parked and 80 active (I fly in busy areas like NYC) and sure enough when I landed I had 79 active and 50 parked.  Enroute there were no adverse affects of running AIGTC to add traffic while FSHUD continues to build a database, especially if you are flying in a new area FSHUD has no data.  

But alpha/beta, whatever it is I just did 12 hours and 10 minutes and it was spot on the entire way.   I will open a ticket as my only issue was it did not show me the A gates at Newark as an arrival gate option.