I know you guys tend to focus on air dynamics, but has there been any improvements to water physics in the recent sim updates at all ?

I'm still using mostly MSFS2020 and the water physics are such a joke that the floatplanes can't even be used at all anymore, so I'm hoping I can use them in MSFS2024 finally ?

7 hours ago, Daube said:

I know you guys tend to focus on air dynamics, but has there been any improvements to water physics in the recent sim updates at all ?

I'm still using mostly MSFS2020 and the water physics are such a joke that the floatplanes can't even be used at all anymore, so I'm hoping I can use them in MSFS2024 finally ?

Yes, in 2024 the planes are really "swimming" on the water instead of being way below or above water in high waves as in 2020.

Well, @Daube this isn't yet the answer you want, regarding specifically water physics, but having tested this latest beta (1.6.11.0) of FS 2024 SU4 and in particular the default ASOBO C172 ( classic and G1000 ), which has the inertia tensors defined in the aerodynamics, this latest update, as Petrovich preconized at the MSFS devs forum, really made a whole lot of a difference, I'd dare saying since I use MS FS ( and I started using it on an almost daily base 🙂 around around 1992 ...)

It's the very first time that I feel a MSFS aircraft (GA in this case) show the effects of inertia from loading it with different passenger and cargo "mass" 🙂 as well as fuel imbalance... WOW! simply WOW !!!

The heaviness in the controls I get from the C172 loaded with 3 German tourists after picking them from a Beer Festival and me at the controls (74kg) is second to none !!! The control responses, the "sluggishness", the power showing it required an even more powerful engine... Everything!

Now, it is up for the developers to explore these and other new features that ASOBO brought to the flight dynamics of MSFS, and fine tuned for FS 2024, and make their addons shine to their best. For instance I also was recently reminded at one of the MSFS AVSIM threads that the good old "leaning bug" had already been fixed by the increase in detail of the simulation of reciprocating engines, and not only through some band aid applied to the flight dynamics CFG !!!

Unfortunately most of the addons and even default aircraft aren't still using these new parameters.

IMO MSFS aerodynamics do no longer lag behind **ANY ** of the flightsims I have used so far, and this extends to rotary wings flight dynamics too! because, provided you pick the best helicopter models, like those from Taog's Hangar, you will not find that MSFS 2024 feels in any way inferior to either X-Plane or Aerofly FS or even DCS World.

Now, I really would like to be able to fine tune a twin glider, or one with ballast, and see how these new inertia tensor calculations affect it, and compare to my RL experience 🙂

BIG KUDOS to ASOBO / Petrovich probably also having played an important role in some of these improvements, and a continuing, ever-growing, 💫Bright💫 MSFS Project !!!!

Edited October 1, 2025Oct 1 by jcomm

@jcomm Thanks for the feedback, which is quite in line with what I was expecting.

Concerning the airplanes, I'll have to make more extended tests to really judge their flight model improvements. From my MSFS2020 experience, the major lacking area was the rudder behavior, which was not only linked to the terrible default sensitivity settings for that axis, but also to the flight model which is known to take things a bit "lightly" 🙂 I have felt some more "consistency" from the MSFS2024 flight model so far, but my outdated computer prevents me from testing more.

For the helicopters, I'm quite satisfied already by their behavior in MSFS2020, excepted maybe for the collective response. But at least, everything is already consistent enough for me to enjoy, especially with addons.

The only real nightmare in MSFS2020 is the floatplanes, which keep jumping/bumping on the surface water as if somebody was kicking the tail on a regular interval. Feels a bit like back in FSX/P3D when you hit the ground with crash detection OFF, and your plane keeps sliding forward on the slippery ground at high speed, but you can't nose up because the aircraft keeps switching back to level position instantly... Well, it's exactly the same behavior on water with MSFS2020. Each takeoff or landing is just pure horror... or more like a comical movie, maybe. It's so unrealistic and ridiculous it even makes me wonder why there are float planes in that sim at all...

So yeah, I REALLY hope it's better (or at least, "less worse" 😄 ) in MSFS2024 for floatplanes. For the sake of comparing, I have tried the same thing in XP12 and it was much better on calm waters...for the physics. The nightmare was the geography, with the lake surface going up and down, an absolute mess (you can take a look at Christiensen lake near Talkeetna).

10 hours ago, Daube said:

I know you guys tend to focus on air dynamics, but has there been any improvements to water physics in the recent sim updates at all ?

I'm still using mostly MSFS2020 and the water physics are such a joke that the floatplanes can't even be used at all anymore, so I'm hoping I can use them in MSFS2024 finally ?

The water physics are improved in MSFS 2024.  With waves that are about 6 inches high, you can steer the plane in the direction you want to go.  That wasn't the case with MSFS 2020, which had weird water physics.

Best is for you to try the water in MSFS 2024 yourself.  If you haven't used Gamepass before, you can try Gamepass for 14 days for like $1 USD if you live in the US, and then you can install and try MSFS 2024 (just remember to unsubscribe from Gamepass before you are charged for the next month).

11 hours ago, Daube said:

I know you guys tend to focus on air dynamics, but has there been any improvements to water physics in the recent sim updates at all ?

I'm still using mostly MSFS2020 and the water physics are such a joke that the floatplanes can't even be used at all anymore, so I'm hoping I can use them in MSFS2024 finally ?

I know it's a lot to look back through, but there have been various reports posted on this thread about water physics. IMO it's a big improvement, almost night and day (but 2020 water physics is a low bar to improve on hehe)... based on the height/severity/etc of the water waves and swells, the planes in 2024 act accordingly and convincingly whether going fast or slow or standing still on the water.
 

Edited October 1, 2025Oct 1 by lwt1971

20 hours ago, jcomm said:

Indeed! Having Petrovich in the MSFS dev team is, at least for me, a huge guarantee of coherence / consistency.

But we have to be patient because they're dealibg with bugs/ limitations inherited from decades of MS FS!!!.

I believe however that if the aircraft developer decides to go the CFD route then there is no (or just minimal) legacy FM limitations to worry about? The CFD technology is where Asobo have made the most advancements in 2024 IMO, especially the consideration of the actual and detailed geometry of the aircraft body to run the CFD calculations over (fuselage, wings, engines, etc). And with these advancement the developer likely has to do less work to fine tune and handcraft the aircraft's FM (or less hand "fudge" 🙂).
 

Edited October 1, 2025Oct 1 by lwt1971

57 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

I believe however that if the aircraft developer decides to go the CFD route then there is no (or just minimal) legacy FM limitations to worry about? The CFD technology is where Asobo have made the most advancements in 2024 IMO, especially the consideration of the actual and detailed geometry of the aircraft body to run the CFD calculations over (fuselage, wings, engines, etc). And with these advancement the developer likely has to do less work to fine tune and handcraft the aircraft's FM (or less hand "fudge" 🙂).
 

I don't know enough about the CFD details of FS 2024 to be able to express an opinion but there are indeed good hints of changes made to the number of surfaces that in this new version of the sim has grown considerably.

OTOH it reminds me of one of the variants of FlighGear's flight simulation models, based on the geometry instead of on loads of parameters and derivates. YASim was surely a nice "essay", but it couldn't beat the detail provided by JSBSim when good base data was available for a given model.

Some may recall that it's actually JSBSim the core engine of the famous Majestic Q-400 🙂

But, back to MSFS, I really have to find some time to read more about the new features in MSFS's CFD, although I hope they still allow devs to use sections of parametric / table based tuning, like the inertia tensors, which, btw, couldn't (easily) be deduced from the geometry...

Edited October 1, 2025Oct 1 by jcomm

19 hours ago, Daube said:

I know you guys tend to focus on air dynamics, but has there been any improvements to water physics in the recent sim updates at all ?

This isn't recent, but here is a good review of the float version of the CAS J3 Cub:
 

 

On 10/1/2025 at 12:59 AM, jcomm said:

Well, @Daube this isn't yet the answer you want, regarding specifically water physics, but having tested this latest beta (1.6.11.0) of FS 2024 SU4 and in particular the default ASOBO C172 ( classic and G1000 ), which has the inertia tensors defined in the aerodynamics, this latest update, as Petrovich preconized at the MSFS devs forum, really made a whole lot of a difference, I'd dare saying since I use MS FS ( and I started using it on an almost daily base 🙂 around around 1992 ...)

It's the very first time that I feel a MSFS aircraft (GA in this case) show the effects of inertia from loading it with different passenger and cargo "mass" 🙂 as well as fuel imbalance... WOW! simply WOW !!!

The heaviness in the controls I get from the C172 loaded with 3 German tourists after picking them from a Beer Festival and me at the controls (74kg) is second to none !!! The control responses, the "sluggishness", the power showing it required an even more powerful engine... Everything!

Now, it is up for the developers to explore these and other new features that ASOBO brought to the flight dynamics of MSFS, and fine tuned for FS 2024, and make their addons shine to their best. For instance I also was recently reminded at one of the MSFS AVSIM threads that the good old "leaning bug" had already been fixed by the increase in detail of the simulation of reciprocating engines, and not only through some band aid applied to the flight dynamics CFG !!!

Unfortunately most of the addons and even default aircraft aren't still using these new parameters.

IMO MSFS aerodynamics do no longer lag behind **ANY ** of the flightsims I have used so far, and this extends to rotary wings flight dynamics too! because, provided you pick the best helicopter models, like those from Taog's Hangar, you will not find that MSFS 2024 feels in any way inferior to either X-Plane or Aerofly FS or even DCS World.

Now, I really would like to be able to fine tune a twin glider, or one with ballast, and see how these new inertia tensor calculations affect it, and compare to my RL experience 🙂

BIG KUDOS to ASOBO / Petrovich probably also having played an important role in some of these improvements, and a continuing, ever-growing, 💫Bright💫 MSFS Project !!!!

Good to hear. I think so many people keep touting the same myths all the time. 

I just saw this comment by Stearmandriver (an IRL Boeing 737 and Stearman pilot), about the flight dynamics of MSFS 2024, and I think it applies to this thread:

Quote

I would disagree a bit.  When I first tried 2024, I was fully expecting that I was trying it as a novelty, and any improvements would be purely visual.  That, however, is definitely not the case.  There are significant differences in certain aspects of aerodynamics.  Or, well, physics in general.  The most notable to me are crosswind effect, ground effect, and ground handling.  Performing crosswind landings in the same plane in 2020 and 2024 (I've primarily tested the CAS J-3 and the iFly Max to cover both ends of the spectrum) yield very different behavior, and it's much better in 2024.  And once you're on the ground, you aren't skating around on ice.

I also tested the Blackbird Porter, which is relevant because there IS no 2024 native version of that aircraft.  I literally copied the folder from my 2020 community folder and dropped it in the 2024 community folder.  It's the very same files, but the aircraft handles significantly differently (for the better) in 2024.  So I really think there are some fundamental physics differences in the two sims.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/682289-is-su4-really-turning-the-corner-for-msfs-2024/page/4/#findComment-5604209

Should also mention that Flightdeck2sim recently checked out the Blacksquare Baron for 2024 and said he was very happy with the flight model.

2 hours ago, Krakin said:

Should also mention that Flightdeck2sim recently checked out the Blacksquare Baron for 2024 and said he was very happy with the flight model.

Ya Black Square have been hitting it out of the park with their GA offerings for MSFS 2024... they've always made use of the latest flight/ground dynamics tech available in the sim (below is from their manual and previous posts):

• Voxel CFD Aerodynamics: Uses the new computational fluid dynamics (CFD) system from MSFS 2024 to simulate airflow around the aircraft with high precision.
• CFD Propeller: Leverages the new CFD model to simulate how the propellers interact with the air, resulting in more realistic propulsion effects.
• Adverse Yaw and Stall Parameters: Includes refined handling of adverse yaw and more accurate stall modeling to match the real-world aircraft.
• Flexible Tire Physics: Simulates realistic tire compression and deformation, which provides a more accurate feeling of ground handling.
   

Edited October 28, 2025Oct 28 by lwt1971

6 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Ya Black Square have been hitting it out of the park with their GA offerings for MSFS 2024... they've always made use of the latest flight/ground dynamics tech available in the sim (below is from their manual and previous posts):

• Voxel CFD Aerodynamics: Uses the new computational fluid dynamics (CFD) system from MSFS 2024 to simulate airflow around the aircraft with high precision.
• CFD Propeller: Leverages the new CFD model to simulate how the propellers interact with the air, resulting in more realistic propulsion effects.
• Adverse Yaw and Stall Parameters: Includes refined handling of adverse yaw and more accurate stall modeling to match the real-world aircraft.
• Flexible Tire Physics: Simulates realistic tire compression and deformation, which provides a more accurate feeling of ground handling.
   

Hmmmm…that is definitely a step or two up from where they started. 

IIRC, at first they used a very limited CFD implementation for just certain parts of the FM. 

my perception is they’ve been gradually expanding the implementation, to where the FM on the Turbine Duke is quite pleasant. 

if these new Pro series addons have indeed gone further/all-in on 2024 physics, then these should  have top tier handling. 

love that they’ve adopted tire deformation, which indicates focus on ground handling 👍

On 9/30/2025 at 9:59 PM, jcomm said:

MSFS aerodynamics do no longer lag behind **ANY ** of the flightsims I have used so far, and this extends to rotary wings flight dynamics too! because, provided you pick the best helicopter models, like those from Taog's Hangar, you will not find that MSFS 2024 feels in any way inferior to either X-Plane or Aerofly FS or even DCS World.

You simply MUST try the Taogs OH-6. 

I recently flew their UH-1 (trying to standardize ops across sims), and while it’s still good, the handling wasn’t as convincing as its counterparts in other sims.

OTOH, the handling of their OH-6 is utterly fabulous, and IMHO is at least as good as any similar helo in any sim. Like so good that I won’t bother even with their UH-1 until it’s 2024 native  

IMHO, here are only a few addons that are worth paying full price - the Taogs OH-6 is one of them. 👍